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Pay attention to what desk am I at relative to the company.

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Don't get confused by people telling you that what you do is important.

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Cause child I have had that happen to me.

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I was on the most shittiest desk in the whole company.

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Child, don't be bamboozled.

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Welcome to the Trill MBA show, the career management podcast teaching black women how to
become unstoppable at work.

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I'm Felicia Ann Rose Enuha, aka The Trillest MBA, delivering the inspiring truth
through strategies and tactics so you feel protected, confident, and ready to conquer your

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career.

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you

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Sunday, everybody.

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Welcome back to the show.

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I'm excited to be here.

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We are the week before the last week of December.

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Like, this is it, guys.

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This is it.

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Two more episodes in the season.

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Then we're going to take a little break.

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So today we're going to continue with client chronicles.

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This tea is hot.

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It's not boiling.

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It won't burn us, mostly because it's not recent.

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so we can gain some good lessons from this client chronicle.

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Today, this client, her name is Lisa.

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And Lisa is a MBA.

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She's super smart, super sharp.

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She's a lot like me.

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Like, there's a lot of similarities between me and Lisa.

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She grew up in a single parent home.

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She's from a small town in the South.

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Didn't grow up around anybody who really worked in corporate spaces.

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Most of the people she knew were

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teachers and nurses, which are all wonderful, like serving professions.

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And, you know, she just wanted to be a businesswoman her whole life.

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She wanted to be a businesswoman.

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She wanted to climb the corporate ladder.

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She had great dreams and hopes and goals.

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And because her mother wasn't this corporate professional, she really just worked super
hard.

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make great grades all throughout, you know, undergrad, grad school, very on it.

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And she too decided to go into marketing.

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And, you know, there are so many things about company culture.

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And this was Lisa's learning, hard fought learning.

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And that's what we're going to talk about today.

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How Lisa

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didn't understand her company culture.

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We're also gonna talk about where you think you're self-aware, but then you're not.

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You're not.

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And so today we're gonna start with Lisa's second job post-MPA.

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The first one was disastrous.

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She had moved way far away to a land in frozen tundra somewhere in the Midwest.

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We've all done it.

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for that paycheck.

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And after a couple of years, she realized I got to get the hell up out of here.

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Also, the company just probably just pushed her out.

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So we've all been there.

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But she lands her second role.

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She's excited because as a marketer, she's now at a big CPG company that's well known and
the brands are loved.

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And she starts out on a little tiny brand.

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She doesn't realize that that's not a good thing.

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Lesson number one, pay attention to the desk.

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So if you work in like marketing or even finance, even operations, in any of the functions
where you actually have to manage the day-to-day operations of a brand slash business

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slash product, so the known identifiable thing.

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So marketers would call that brand and finance, you'll call that the product or the
service.

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In operations, you know, you'll call that the manufacturing, the thing that you make that
goes on the shelf that all the consumers know, right?

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So Lisa, she's excited because she has started out in another industry and not working for
things that people saw on the shelves.

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And so now she's excited because she gets to do some of the fun and sexy things that
people think marketers do all the time, which is just a little part of their job.

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So she'll get to go on photo shoots and go shoot commercial and all those things that she
didn't get to do at her previous company because they had no money and they didn't really

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do those tactics.

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And so she's excited and she's going to learn.

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And so she's starting off on this little tiny brand in the portfolio of the company.

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And what she's geeked about is that she's got a manager of color.

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We'll call him Bobby.

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And Bobby is super smart, well-liked, and he is willing to sit down and take out time and
really teach Lisa

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how to be a new brand marketer.

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So she's super excited because she's never had anybody to sit down and teach her how to do
the things that marketers do.

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things like volume forecasting and how to understand the analytics of your business.

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and understanding the P &L and the parts of the P &L you get to see as a marketer because
sometimes you don't even get to see the whole P &L because you're so low on the totem

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pole.

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But understanding how to manage Nielsen or IRI and being able to pull data out of those
systems and tell a story with that data.

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So she's learning all these things for the first time for, you know, ever.

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having any data like this and she's creating reports and she's doing really well and she
learns quick.

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you know, within a month or two, she's doing the weekly report and then Bobby taught her
how to do it.

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So, you know, she's really excited, even though this brand is really small and nobody
really cares and it doesn't get a lot of resources.

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She's excited that somebody is taking time out to teach her how to do her job.

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But then

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She's happy, she's got a good manager.

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She thinks this could be the place I can grow my career.

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These are all mistakes, Again, why?

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That sounded awesome.

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Because guess what happened?

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About four months into starting at the company in this new role on The Little Dust, the
company decides, oh, we've got to backfill this same role on a bigger brand.

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Since you're good with these numbers and you learn quick, we're just going to move you
into this new role.

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Now, if Lisa had understood the company that she worked for, if she had really understood
about brand itself and the bullshit hoopla that these companies make in the form of

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Kool-Aids,

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and Jim Jones juices that you're supposed to drink internally.

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She would have pretended to be excited to be plucked from the little desk and put on the
big desk.

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So this is something I need you guys to realize in this story.

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I need you to pay attention and look around at your company's portfolio.

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And this is something I learned even as

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you know, where Lisa was in her career.

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And it's a hard lesson.

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It's a hard understanding.

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Every company has a pecking order to where they're driving resources.

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And it is your job to understand what parts of the portfolio, parts of the business, if
it's brands, if it's divisions, it's your job to understand where the money is going.

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and what everybody believes is important, what the senior leaders are looking to invest
in.

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And this is easy information to find out.

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You work in the company.

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You can go in the data.

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You can go look at documents, like go be nosy, go find out, go ask questions.

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And you don't even have to really ask anybody.

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Like you can literally go on their website and look at the 10K guys.

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Like you can do this research and you have access to more information when you work for
the company.

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on the intranet, you can listen to the earnings calls and that will tell you what the
company is focusing on.

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And if you're not working on those things, then you probably aren't in the best spot to be
seen, to be heard and to quickly rise the rank.

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And so particularly with these big CPG brand companies, the desk you're on

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is important.

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So, for example, if you want to get promoted at, say, a company, I can't say any names,
guys, because some of these companies I've actually worked at too.

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But let's say a well-known soft drink brand.

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Pick one.

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There's only like three.

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Pick one of the three.

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I've worked at two and I know people at the third.

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But take

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the name brand thing, the thing the company is named after.

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OK, if you don't work on that desk.

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So if I don't work on this red or blue can, right, then I need to somehow work to position
myself to work on that desk.

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Or if it's chips, let's just say.

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then I need to position myself to work on the desk with the yellow bag.

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We all know what I'm talking about.

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So I need to work on the big dog brand in the house.

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That's your goal.

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And if you are able to figure out how to get there or if there's a block and then the more
you try to get there, the more resistance you've got to leave.

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You got to leave the company because you're not

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in the nine box in a place that says, we're going to groom you to a certain point.

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And so you've got to find out real information.

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You got to get somebody to be honest with you.

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It's going to be hard because nobody wants to tell a worker, be there a worker be.

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But if you don't see progress, you're a worker bee.

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And one of the things that denotes progress is you working on the biggest brands in the
building.

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you presenting about the biggest brands in the building, you being put in front of
customers for these big brands, you getting that visibility, you doing the innovation

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projects for these big brands, you getting visibility for working on those big brands.

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That's how you know you're moving in the right direction and then getting promoted is the
ching-ching check.

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So.

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But Lisa, this was actually a good thing.

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But unfortunately, she didn't understand any of this that I just explained.

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And she was hot.

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mean, upset, cried, didn't mean to cry, but cried because in her mind, she finally had a
good manager and she hadn't had that.

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She finally had somebody who was going to invest time and work with her and guide her.

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career and like really being there so she could really learn.

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And she was just afraid.

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She had a fear based reaction.

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So that's the other thing that you have to be mindful of is controlling your emotional
responses to things in the workplace.

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You want to be even killed.

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Good leaders are even killed.

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The thing is, when this happened to Lisa and she was upset about it, it's a double whammy
because people are like, one, you are ungrateful.

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We are putting you on the biggest brand in the building and this is how you're acting.

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Again, this goes over her head until we talk.

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And then the other thing is you're being immature.

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This person who is your manager still

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sits right across the hall from you, you can go talk to them when you want to.

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Why are you crying?

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Now, I understood why Lisa was crying.

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I get it.

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I've been there 51 times, but I also understood why the organization now has marked her as
lacking executive maturity.

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Mind you, she had no idea.

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And so part of this lesson is you have to show up in a way

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that connotes this level of maturity, even though you're a human being having a human
reaction and a human response, we don't get to do that.

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And when I say we, I mean, every fucking body, nobody gets to really do that and get away
with it.

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You can't get away with it long term.

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Now there are some people who they get to be assholes at work.

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I don't know why.

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I don't know why they get to be assholes and everybody has to be nice.

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And then if you're an asshole and now you in the principal's office per se, IEHR, and
people looking at you crazy and accusing you of creating a hostile work environment, even

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though, you you probably weren't even really being an asshole.

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But most of us, 99 % of us have to show up in a way that allows other people to feel good.

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And how you do that is staying even kill emotionally.

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Never high, never low.

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Everything's just great.

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Just good.

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It's good.

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you're moving me, Dusk.

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I'm going to have a new manager.

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OK, that's great.

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Is there anything I need to know right now?

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OK, cool.

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Well, thank you so much.

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You guys have a great day.

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it.

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That's all you need to give them.

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And you may get feedback saying, we don't know if you care.

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We don't know if you're passionate.

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And that's when you give people the speech.

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You say, hey, I'm an internal processor.

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And what that means is I am not going to emote physically, emote or be boisterous
emotionally, either good or bad.

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So I'm excited.

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I'm happy to be here.

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That may not show up in a way that it shows up for you.

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And I would hope that you wouldn't judge me for being different.

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I hope that we would celebrate the diversity that we have here in this company.

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That's how you respond to, I don't know if you care.

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I don't know if you're passionate enough.

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The idea that you get dinged for not being passionate about a company you don't own is
bananas to me.

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But go off, sis, go off.

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Lisa did not get that feedback.

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She got the opposite feedback, which is you're too emotional.

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This is business.

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So we worked on that.

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Now, I'm going take a quick break.

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Right now, Lisa has had this emotional outbreak and now she's been dinged.

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And this is where she comes to me for coaching.

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And I'm going to talk about how we turned that around and got her promotion when we get
back from the break.

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Hey guys, so we have digital tools that accompany each episode to help you work through
some of the tactics and strategies that you need to put into place so that you're thriving

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00:17:35,247 --> 00:17:36,128
at work.

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00:17:36,128 --> 00:17:47,260
So go to trillmba.com and if you haven't already, sign up for our freebies and you'll get
access to not only these digital tools that go with these episodes,

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00:17:47,260 --> 00:17:54,435
but you'll also get access to every digital tool I've ever created that's free to you to
help you in your career.

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00:17:54,435 --> 00:17:57,159
Now, let's get back to the show.

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guys, we are back.

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We're talking about Lisa.

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She no longer works for Bobby.

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Now she's working for Ernesto.

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So, wrong with Ernesto.

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He just ain't got time.

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That's like, he's trying to get promoted.

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He's trying to live his life.

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And little known to us, he's actually trying to find another job.

225
00:18:23,652 --> 00:18:25,112
He's trying to leave the company.

226
00:18:25,112 --> 00:18:26,892
We don't know that part.

227
00:18:27,732 --> 00:18:30,532
But he's definitely not Bobby.

228
00:18:30,652 --> 00:18:31,408
And

229
00:18:31,408 --> 00:18:34,971
Ernesto is hands-off manager.

230
00:18:34,971 --> 00:18:42,917
So now you have somebody who is a hands-off manager for a person who's new to the company.

231
00:18:43,038 --> 00:18:49,574
Now this could have been a disaster, but I'm glad Lisa recognized like, oh, fuck shit, I
need some help.

232
00:18:49,574 --> 00:18:51,146
I don't know what I'm doing now.

233
00:18:51,146 --> 00:18:57,668
I got this fool over here, Ernesto, and he don't care.

234
00:18:57,668 --> 00:18:59,492
He just, I don't know.

235
00:18:59,590 --> 00:19:01,822
He's not good or bad, he just don't care.

236
00:19:01,822 --> 00:19:05,695
So I'm having to learn how to manage agencies.

237
00:19:05,695 --> 00:19:09,368
I'm having to learn how to do all these things.

238
00:19:09,368 --> 00:19:13,271
And Lisa is like, oh my God, I'm in over my head.

239
00:19:13,271 --> 00:19:14,132
Great.

240
00:19:14,132 --> 00:19:16,734
I'm perfectly capable to help.

241
00:19:16,734 --> 00:19:23,770
So what we worked on is one, we worked on building her relationship while.

242
00:19:23,770 --> 00:19:29,222
So one of the things I had her do was connect.

243
00:19:29,222 --> 00:19:33,773
with the people she felt most comfortable with that weren't black.

244
00:19:33,773 --> 00:19:37,214
Cause at this company, there weren't a lot of black people anyway.

245
00:19:37,214 --> 00:19:43,186
She was cool with a few black people that was there, but they were also all at lower
levels.

246
00:19:43,186 --> 00:19:45,797
There wasn't like a senior black person.

247
00:19:45,797 --> 00:19:58,726
So this is where she had to get out of her comfort zone as a black woman from humble
beginnings and being uncomfortable with, you know, interacting with folks because she had

248
00:19:58,726 --> 00:20:05,742
in her previous roles, seeing like, well, if I try to be myself, I get judged this way, I
get judged that way.

249
00:20:05,742 --> 00:20:13,207
So she was really working on that how to show up in an effective way that's helpful to her
career.

250
00:20:13,307 --> 00:20:15,589
And that's taxing.

251
00:20:15,589 --> 00:20:17,371
It is very taxing.

252
00:20:17,371 --> 00:20:24,896
But you just kind of hold your breath and count to three and you keep going, guys.

253
00:20:24,924 --> 00:20:33,089
Because the only way to really get promoted is to play what game that you're in.

254
00:20:33,250 --> 00:20:34,131
That's it.

255
00:20:34,131 --> 00:20:39,455
So as Black women, we can get promoted, right?

256
00:20:39,455 --> 00:20:48,001
We see Black women get promoted a number of times, but there are some sacrifice to it.

257
00:20:48,001 --> 00:20:49,902
There's some trade-off.

258
00:20:50,383 --> 00:20:52,844
And part of that trade-off is

259
00:20:52,964 --> 00:20:58,889
this authenticity you may want to have, you leave that at home a little bit.

260
00:20:59,069 --> 00:21:00,460
That's a hard reality.

261
00:21:00,460 --> 00:21:03,833
That's a hard, hard reality.

262
00:21:04,214 --> 00:21:07,055
I don't even like saying that.

263
00:21:07,236 --> 00:21:14,372
And in some spaces, according on the space you're in, you can show it.

264
00:21:14,372 --> 00:21:16,674
Like, in fact, your job requires you to.

265
00:21:16,674 --> 00:21:21,466
Like, I've been thinking about the CEO of Essence.

266
00:21:21,466 --> 00:21:29,122
And I love seeing her and love seeing her with green lipstick and elaborate hairstyles.

267
00:21:29,122 --> 00:21:33,304
Like she's like came back from the future.

268
00:21:33,304 --> 00:21:34,385
Like I love it.

269
00:21:34,385 --> 00:21:35,686
I love it all.

270
00:21:35,686 --> 00:21:37,627
But I recognize she works for Essence.

271
00:21:37,627 --> 00:21:49,876
uh She works for a magazine that is for black women and she almost needs to live out loud
in that way.

272
00:21:49,954 --> 00:21:54,608
as the leader of this company that is catering to us.

273
00:21:54,828 --> 00:22:01,114
Could she be the CEO of Target and show up like that?

274
00:22:01,114 --> 00:22:08,079
Could she be the CEO of Sony Pictures, Disney?

275
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:17,924
Could she be the CEO of JP Morgan Chase and show up in what feels and seems her authentic

276
00:22:17,924 --> 00:22:20,987
expression of how she wants to be in the world.

277
00:22:20,987 --> 00:22:22,208
We all know what the answer is.

278
00:22:22,208 --> 00:22:23,569
Probably not.

279
00:22:23,569 --> 00:22:30,894
She probably could not be the CEO and show up in that way for any of these other companies
out here.

280
00:22:31,615 --> 00:22:32,606
Is that right?

281
00:22:32,606 --> 00:22:47,608
No, that's not right, because she's probably so much more free mentally to bring so much
more greatness to essence.

282
00:22:47,846 --> 00:23:05,180
because she doesn't have to spend mental and emotional energy thinking about how she has
to show up, what clothes she has to wear, being uncomfortable in said clothes, because

283
00:23:05,180 --> 00:23:13,926
those aren't the clothes she really wants to wear to express herself, not wearing the
hairstyle she really wants to wear to express her.

284
00:23:14,056 --> 00:23:28,860
creativity and originality and uniqueness in the world because there would be so much
drama and mental acrobats, political landmines.

285
00:23:28,996 --> 00:23:38,323
Because you gotta understand when you're the CEO or you're high up too, there's some young
whippersnapper that's probably trying to come for your spot, right?

286
00:23:38,683 --> 00:23:43,268
And so you've got all these relationships you've gotta manage.

287
00:23:43,268 --> 00:23:56,954
And if you're not in the space that gives you the freedom to be who you are so you can
focus, that's just more mental energy that you are going to have to expend to show up in a

288
00:23:56,954 --> 00:24:12,720
way that may not be intuitive to you so that you can show up in a way that leaves the
impact that you need to leave in order to climb and get to where you're trying to go.

289
00:24:12,956 --> 00:24:17,058
So for Lisa, that was a hard pill to swallow.

290
00:24:17,058 --> 00:24:24,092
But I told her, you you cannot show all this emotion, have all this emotion.

291
00:24:24,092 --> 00:24:27,945
I know you're an emotional being, but you got to keep that close to the best.

292
00:24:27,945 --> 00:24:35,088
You can't show these things to them because now they're going to judge and label.

293
00:24:35,329 --> 00:24:40,151
And then you're going to have to fight this confirmation bias.

294
00:24:40,592 --> 00:24:41,444
And

295
00:24:41,444 --> 00:24:44,816
any little time that you get emotional.

296
00:24:44,816 --> 00:24:50,029
So like, you know, somebody in your family is really sick or somebody dies.

297
00:24:50,029 --> 00:24:57,112
Now you've got to be this stoic human in these circumstances in order to combat the
narrative.

298
00:24:57,112 --> 00:24:59,974
You have to set the narrative early.

299
00:25:00,114 --> 00:25:02,245
You have to come in, even keel.

300
00:25:02,245 --> 00:25:09,199
You started a new company and whatever changes they're making, you just have to go with
the flow.

301
00:25:09,199 --> 00:25:09,819
Why?

302
00:25:09,819 --> 00:25:11,610
Because it's not your company.

303
00:25:12,070 --> 00:25:13,921
You work for them, they pay you.

304
00:25:13,921 --> 00:25:15,721
They pay you to do a job.

305
00:25:15,721 --> 00:25:20,562
They want to move you from this desk to that desk to wherever.

306
00:25:20,562 --> 00:25:24,383
They want to have you have four managers in one year.

307
00:25:24,383 --> 00:25:30,225
You have to navigate and ride the wave of it as long as you're there.

308
00:25:30,505 --> 00:25:33,446
And if you don't like it, leave.

309
00:25:33,646 --> 00:25:34,496
Leave.

310
00:25:34,496 --> 00:25:36,217
Please leave.

311
00:25:36,217 --> 00:25:37,607
Quick, fast, and a hurry.

312
00:25:37,607 --> 00:25:41,648
If you know you're feeling your spirit, this is not for me.

313
00:25:42,021 --> 00:25:43,261
leave.

314
00:25:43,261 --> 00:25:55,621
But if there's something that you can learn and if you can play this game and run this
chess board, then stay and learn, collect checks, right?

315
00:25:55,801 --> 00:25:57,441
Stay while it makes sense.

316
00:25:57,441 --> 00:26:08,161
But as soon as it doesn't make sense for you, And so with Lisa, it was like, OK, let's see
if we can get this promotion and then you can leave.

317
00:26:08,161 --> 00:26:09,921
Like, you don't have to stay.

318
00:26:09,921 --> 00:26:11,452
And so

319
00:26:11,460 --> 00:26:21,744
The first thing we did was work on her relationship while making sure she had the key
relationships we identified who had the juice in the organization.

320
00:26:21,864 --> 00:26:31,969
She got moved to the biggest desk in the company that had the most resources and was the
biggest brand and a global brand.

321
00:26:31,969 --> 00:26:40,674
So she got to work on global projects with the global team and she got to lead the North
America team.

322
00:26:40,674 --> 00:26:43,035
I said, this is all good bullet points, girl.

323
00:26:43,035 --> 00:26:46,790
You're gonna ride this out and you're gonna do your thug do.

324
00:26:46,831 --> 00:26:48,613
Even with Ernesto.

325
00:26:48,613 --> 00:26:53,598
And so she was doing great until Ernesto left.

326
00:26:53,779 --> 00:26:57,903
And then she got Jim.

327
00:27:00,458 --> 00:27:10,003
We're gonna talk about when you get a manager that's scared of you because you black and
how to handle it.

328
00:27:13,188 --> 00:27:15,288
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329
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330
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331
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332
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333
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334
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335
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336
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337
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338
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339
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340
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341
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342
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343
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344
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345
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346
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347
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348
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349
00:28:57,623 --> 00:28:59,964
Now, let's get back to the shop.

350
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,313
Welcome back from the break, guys.

351
00:29:09,313 --> 00:29:10,824
We're going to wrap this up.

352
00:29:10,824 --> 00:29:17,109
I'm to talk about the most important thing and we're going to talk about Lisa's new boss.

353
00:29:17,209 --> 00:29:20,692
Clearly not her boss now, but we're going to talk about Jim.

354
00:29:24,772 --> 00:29:30,415
So Lisa's pretty tall and she's not fat, but she's not skinny.

355
00:29:30,415 --> 00:29:33,196
Like she just average size.

356
00:29:33,377 --> 00:29:36,238
And so Jim is short.

357
00:29:36,238 --> 00:29:38,459
Jim's a short white man.

358
00:29:38,459 --> 00:29:40,852
I don't know where Jim is from.

359
00:29:40,852 --> 00:29:42,281
I know he has a family.

360
00:29:42,281 --> 00:29:43,212
He's like married.

361
00:29:43,212 --> 00:29:44,643
He has kids.

362
00:29:44,643 --> 00:29:47,944
And then there's Jim and there's Bob.

363
00:29:47,944 --> 00:29:53,788
So Bob is a new senior leader with something to prove.

364
00:29:53,788 --> 00:29:54,850
oh

365
00:29:54,850 --> 00:29:57,881
My God, Bob's the worst.

366
00:29:57,882 --> 00:29:59,602
I can't stand Bob.

367
00:29:59,603 --> 00:30:07,227
Bob making all kinds of rules that nobody else has to live by about what time to be in the
office.

368
00:30:07,287 --> 00:30:08,648
Bob is doing the most.

369
00:30:08,648 --> 00:30:10,769
Jim is going along with it.

370
00:30:10,769 --> 00:30:23,196
And because Lisa is the junior person on the team, she has to figure out how to deal with
these two numb nuts, mediocre.

371
00:30:23,716 --> 00:30:25,196
Lord have mercy.

372
00:30:25,396 --> 00:30:32,856
So in working through this, Bob had this thing about need to be in the office by eight
o'clock.

373
00:30:32,856 --> 00:30:37,776
Now, the culture of the company, most people get in between 8.30 and nine.

374
00:30:38,196 --> 00:30:46,756
And Bob's leader, who is the general manager, he tends to get in early, super early, so he
can have time by himself.

375
00:30:47,156 --> 00:30:52,332
So Bob being insecure, he's like, okay, Jim, okay, Lisa.

376
00:30:52,332 --> 00:30:55,734
Y'all need to be here because he's here.

377
00:30:55,734 --> 00:30:59,865
We need to be the best and show and blah, blah, blah.

378
00:30:59,865 --> 00:31:00,636
my God.

379
00:31:00,636 --> 00:31:01,796
Horrible human.

380
00:31:01,796 --> 00:31:02,897
Read the room.

381
00:31:02,897 --> 00:31:05,218
Your boss wants to be alone.

382
00:31:05,218 --> 00:31:06,818
Don't want to see you.

383
00:31:06,818 --> 00:31:11,901
That's why I come in at seven because nobody's here until eight thirty nine.

384
00:31:11,901 --> 00:31:15,222
So I come in early to have my thing.

385
00:31:15,222 --> 00:31:18,723
Now, here you come at seven thirty.

386
00:31:18,723 --> 00:31:20,324
Bothering me.

387
00:31:20,396 --> 00:31:23,418
letting me know you're here and your team is here.

388
00:31:23,418 --> 00:31:25,219
You're stupid.

389
00:31:25,219 --> 00:31:27,436
This man's boss was so annoyed with him.

390
00:31:27,436 --> 00:31:32,263
He don't even work there anymore because of this type of behavior.

391
00:31:32,263 --> 00:31:42,962
So prior to Jim and Bob, Ernesto had at least been laying the groundwork for Lisa to get
promoted, right?

392
00:31:42,962 --> 00:31:50,178
She was doing great and a lot of stuff on her own, stepping up to the plate, punching
above her weight, all the things.

393
00:31:50,178 --> 00:31:56,352
making Ernesto's life really easy for him to find this new job that he found.

394
00:31:56,352 --> 00:31:57,934
Unbeknownst to Lisa.

395
00:31:57,934 --> 00:32:04,338
So Ernesto's gone, Lisa's now stuck with Jim.

396
00:32:04,778 --> 00:32:07,200
Jim is funny acting.

397
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:18,748
He now is trying to put her back in her place because now that she has two people she's
reporting into,

398
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:31,791
He's taking her workload away because he has to prove he's worth something to the
organization in his role because he's a senior manager and he's managing Lisa who's a

399
00:32:31,791 --> 00:32:34,193
junior brain manager.

400
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:39,007
And in this Lisa's feeling a certain kind of way, right?

401
00:32:39,007 --> 00:32:46,934
She's trying to get promoted and she had to realize she had to stop fighting because it
wasn't getting her anywhere.

402
00:32:47,368 --> 00:32:59,176
And she also had to realize that she wanted to call a meeting to talk about, I'm not from
up here.

403
00:32:59,176 --> 00:33:00,837
You got me driving in the snow.

404
00:33:00,837 --> 00:33:02,143
I almost killed myself.

405
00:33:02,143 --> 00:33:03,779
I almost got in this car accident.

406
00:33:03,779 --> 00:33:05,280
I could have died.

407
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:06,001
I'm not going to.

408
00:33:06,001 --> 00:33:08,823
And I said, no, m don't do that.

409
00:33:08,823 --> 00:33:10,426
He's saying be here at 8.

410
00:33:10,426 --> 00:33:12,185
Get there when you get there.

411
00:33:12,185 --> 00:33:13,906
Let him keep talking.

412
00:33:13,906 --> 00:33:16,600
You get there when you get there because you get there.

413
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:18,521
when everybody else gets there.

414
00:33:18,521 --> 00:33:19,841
So get there when you get there.

415
00:33:19,841 --> 00:33:25,724
Just make sure you get your work done and just don't say anything about it and let him
talk how he talks.

416
00:33:25,724 --> 00:33:32,947
So one thing Bob would do is just come out of his office and talk at Bob and Lisa.

417
00:33:32,947 --> 00:33:37,674
And I would let him talk and be like, OK, and just smile.

418
00:33:37,674 --> 00:33:38,710
And that's it.

419
00:33:38,710 --> 00:33:40,970
He's an insecure person.

420
00:33:40,991 --> 00:33:43,600
He just wants to be placated.

421
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:44,578
But.

422
00:33:44,578 --> 00:33:49,791
You do what you need to do and you keep going and then you keep building these other
relationships over here.

423
00:33:49,791 --> 00:33:55,494
And oh, by the way, just drop, you know, little nuggets.

424
00:33:55,494 --> 00:34:05,030
So never say anything negative about Bob or Jim to anybody, but just say, yeah, you know,
Bob wants us to be in at eight o'clock.

425
00:34:05,030 --> 00:34:11,613
And so I've, you know, really been working to do that, even though, you know, everybody
else comes in at nine.

426
00:34:11,613 --> 00:34:13,132
But, you know.

427
00:34:13,132 --> 00:34:15,133
I know he's trying to make an impression.

428
00:34:15,133 --> 00:34:17,394
So we do our best, guys.

429
00:34:17,394 --> 00:34:18,895
We're doing our best.

430
00:34:18,895 --> 00:34:25,872
So when he's calling these eight o'clock meetings with cross-functional team partners,
that's how you do that.

431
00:34:26,099 --> 00:34:28,641
And you'll see it'll unravel.

432
00:34:28,641 --> 00:34:30,822
You don't have to be the one to complain.

433
00:34:30,822 --> 00:34:33,673
You don't have to be the voice of reason.

434
00:34:33,673 --> 00:34:38,266
You can just sit there and watch and just say yes and then do what you want to do.

435
00:34:38,266 --> 00:34:38,606
Right.

436
00:34:38,606 --> 00:34:42,072
When it comes to things like what time you get in and it's

437
00:34:42,072 --> 00:34:45,935
You're being asked to do something that's outside the cultural norm of the organization.

438
00:34:45,935 --> 00:34:52,140
Like keep your agency and don't be afraid because think about it like this.

439
00:34:52,140 --> 00:34:59,066
If Bob tries to get Jim, Jim would have to do it because Jim is Lisa's manager.

440
00:34:59,066 --> 00:35:05,441
So if Bob tells Jim, you know, Lisa isn't showing up at eight o'clock.

441
00:35:05,441 --> 00:35:07,833
I've noticed she's not here at eight o'clock.

442
00:35:07,833 --> 00:35:10,234
We all need to be here at eight o'clock.

443
00:35:10,315 --> 00:35:11,716
And then Jim.

444
00:35:11,716 --> 00:35:13,276
is going to go talk to you.

445
00:35:13,276 --> 00:35:18,436
Hey, you know, Bob said you need to be here at eight o'clock.

446
00:35:18,436 --> 00:35:21,356
So like, can you get here at eight o'clock?

447
00:35:22,096 --> 00:35:25,256
And then you just keep coming in when you come in.

448
00:35:25,256 --> 00:35:26,996
Either one or two things are going to happen.

449
00:35:26,996 --> 00:35:31,816
They're going to call HR in and then y'all going to talk about the policy and the cultural
norms.

450
00:35:31,816 --> 00:35:36,176
And then you're going to say, then everybody needs to come in at eight o'clock then.

451
00:35:36,176 --> 00:35:37,556
Is that our policy?

452
00:35:37,556 --> 00:35:39,528
It's up to your manager's discretion.

453
00:35:39,528 --> 00:35:43,029
well then why is he treating me differently than all the other people at work?

454
00:35:43,029 --> 00:35:46,170
Why is he treating me and Jim differently?

455
00:35:46,170 --> 00:35:50,131
Why are we being treated differently than everyone else?

456
00:35:50,892 --> 00:35:53,792
So that's how you combat that.

457
00:35:53,792 --> 00:35:55,413
It was really stupid.

458
00:35:55,413 --> 00:35:57,524
And so Lisa played it cool.

459
00:35:57,524 --> 00:35:59,154
They never confronted her.

460
00:35:59,154 --> 00:36:05,890
I'm sure Bob complained based on, you know, how things went down, but

461
00:36:05,890 --> 00:36:10,912
Jim was afraid of Lisa, so we never confronted her really about it.

462
00:36:10,912 --> 00:36:12,816
He mentioned it and he keep going.

463
00:36:12,816 --> 00:36:14,867
And he focused on the work.

464
00:36:14,867 --> 00:36:22,334
The other thing I told Lisa, I said, well, you can really work to get there at eight
o'clock, but then leave exactly at five.

465
00:36:22,334 --> 00:36:24,515
Like, do not stay past five o'clock.

466
00:36:24,515 --> 00:36:28,428
Like at four fifty five, you are shutting down.

467
00:36:28,428 --> 00:36:30,280
You go to the restroom.

468
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,222
You put your coat on.

469
00:36:32,222 --> 00:36:35,724
You get yourself together and you get out of there.

470
00:36:35,748 --> 00:36:40,208
Like do not, do not stay past five o'clock.

471
00:36:40,208 --> 00:36:42,148
So those are your two options.

472
00:36:42,148 --> 00:36:48,488
And then if they try to schedule a meeting at five, you say, oh, I'm sorry, I have a hard
stop, gotta go.

473
00:36:48,528 --> 00:36:51,967
Because if you want me here at eight, I'm not staying past five.

474
00:36:51,967 --> 00:36:55,308
Because normally people would stay past five.

475
00:36:55,308 --> 00:36:58,368
Like they'd be there at 536, 615.

476
00:36:58,488 --> 00:37:02,148
It was a later work culturally office.

477
00:37:02,148 --> 00:37:11,988
And so since they had you coming in the office at that, then it's like, why am I going to
be here at eight and then have to stay till six?

478
00:37:11,988 --> 00:37:14,108
Like I'm not, no.

479
00:37:14,108 --> 00:37:17,888
So again, there's no need to bring any of this up.

480
00:37:17,888 --> 00:37:19,988
Let your actions speak for you.

481
00:37:19,988 --> 00:37:23,588
This will save you a world of trouble.

482
00:37:23,868 --> 00:37:26,668
Do not complain, do not fight.

483
00:37:26,668 --> 00:37:28,428
Just say, okay.

484
00:37:28,428 --> 00:37:29,948
Don't even say yes, sure.

485
00:37:29,948 --> 00:37:31,074
Say, okay.

486
00:37:31,074 --> 00:37:36,068
Because OK is one of those positive sounding words that mean nothing.

487
00:37:36,068 --> 00:37:36,949
OK.

488
00:37:36,949 --> 00:37:38,430
And they're like, well, you said you would do this.

489
00:37:38,430 --> 00:37:39,000
said, no.

490
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,992
said, OK, I understood what you were saying.

491
00:37:42,012 --> 00:37:44,054
Like, keep your power.

492
00:37:44,054 --> 00:37:49,958
And as long as you're getting your work done and you're doing your best, it's not much
they can really say to you.

493
00:37:49,958 --> 00:37:58,134
Now they're trying to figure out how to say your work product is not up to par when your
work product has been fine.

494
00:37:58,584 --> 00:38:03,488
You know, you've been doing well and now all of a sudden I work for you and now there's
issues.

495
00:38:03,488 --> 00:38:05,584
Can you help me understand why?

496
00:38:05,584 --> 00:38:11,705
And so I really worked with Lisa to unpack some of the language and to come up with better
language.

497
00:38:11,705 --> 00:38:25,447
And so, you know, subtly, slowly, but surely they left her alone and she was able to
interview for a promotion role on another team and she got off the team and she was a lot

498
00:38:25,447 --> 00:38:26,284
happier.

499
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:35,601
That was some fuck shit that she didn't sign up for.

500
00:38:36,162 --> 00:38:41,443
But she's doing well in her career.

501
00:38:41,543 --> 00:38:50,136
Also had to leave that company because like I said, there weren't very many people of
color that were in leadership positions.

502
00:38:50,136 --> 00:38:54,708
So as a black woman, you only got promoted so far at this company.

503
00:38:54,708 --> 00:38:56,372
It was very obvious.

504
00:38:56,372 --> 00:39:01,215
Like once you made it to senior manager, you couldn't really get to director.

505
00:39:01,276 --> 00:39:06,020
So she had to leave so she could get her director strike.

506
00:39:06,020 --> 00:39:09,652
But that's another thing you've got to pay attention to.

507
00:39:09,652 --> 00:39:18,549
Like how many people look like you across the company that are in director and higher
roles.

508
00:39:18,549 --> 00:39:26,257
And if it's just one, but they're not even in your function, if there's none in your
function, if there's none in your function,

509
00:39:26,257 --> 00:39:27,187
run.

510
00:39:27,187 --> 00:39:35,095
If there's one run, if there's two or three, okay, you might got a chance.

511
00:39:35,095 --> 00:39:37,116
You might, maybe.

512
00:39:37,277 --> 00:39:51,110
But when there's one or none, especially if it's a culture that's like a kind of cultish
kind of culture, like if it's a culture where they like a bunch of yes people.

513
00:39:51,110 --> 00:39:52,841
So the people who are

514
00:39:52,841 --> 00:39:54,903
go along and get along and everything.

515
00:39:54,903 --> 00:40:01,148
my God, I love, especially if they talk about that one black person in leadership and they
talk about them like this.

516
00:40:01,148 --> 00:40:03,099
my God, I love her so much.

517
00:40:03,099 --> 00:40:05,361
She's just so great.

518
00:40:05,361 --> 00:40:14,379
Like I just really love working with her and she just really always has something
insightful to say.

519
00:40:14,379 --> 00:40:17,731
Like I just really love working with her.

520
00:40:17,731 --> 00:40:22,455
Like if that's how they talk about that person, run, you not gonna make it.

521
00:40:22,715 --> 00:40:25,356
unless you are able to play that game.

522
00:40:25,356 --> 00:40:27,086
Like if you're really able to play that game.

523
00:40:27,086 --> 00:40:40,241
But I'm going tell you right now, many of us, we believe that we get to a higher level of
leadership and we are able to, you know, say our points of view and all those things.

524
00:40:40,241 --> 00:40:46,983
But if you see that this leader is non-confrontational, they don't really have a strong
point of view.

525
00:40:46,985 --> 00:40:49,786
They keep running the same plays every year after year.

526
00:40:49,786 --> 00:40:52,637
They're not really the groundbreaking innovative person.

527
00:40:52,637 --> 00:40:54,338
They don't get to be that person.

528
00:40:54,338 --> 00:41:02,221
And you know you want to be in that role, but be a groundbreaking innovative person, then
that company is not for you.

529
00:41:02,221 --> 00:41:03,062
need to run.

530
00:41:03,062 --> 00:41:10,925
But if you can toe to the company line and be the token Negro for them, then you got it.

531
00:41:10,925 --> 00:41:12,125
Do that.

532
00:41:12,125 --> 00:41:13,486
Get that check.

533
00:41:13,486 --> 00:41:14,646
Make that money, honey.

534
00:41:14,646 --> 00:41:15,855
That's why we're here.

535
00:41:15,855 --> 00:41:17,001
OK?

536
00:41:17,001 --> 00:41:20,271
but make sure you're making a conscious decision.

537
00:41:20,271 --> 00:41:26,278
And so for Lisa, she definitely moved to a place where she could thrive.

538
00:41:26,399 --> 00:41:31,583
And like, she was wanted, at least, you know, for the first two years.

539
00:41:34,515 --> 00:41:43,748
You know, I'm proud of everyone that goes through the fires and comes out on the other
side.

540
00:41:43,748 --> 00:41:55,521
And you're not as gay, you're not as burnt, you're not as traumatized as I've seen some of
us be, as I have been.

541
00:41:55,935 --> 00:42:03,643
And you're comfortable and confident in what you know you can do and how you can read the
tea leaves and

542
00:42:03,657 --> 00:42:09,871
how you can speak for impact and you can manage your narrative.

543
00:42:09,871 --> 00:42:12,093
It helps you to feel in control.

544
00:42:12,093 --> 00:42:19,768
And that's really what I want you to understand that you do have a level of control.

545
00:42:19,768 --> 00:42:24,742
Now you'll get curve balls, life will be life and things will happen.

546
00:42:24,742 --> 00:42:32,287
But if you understand the company's culture, if you understand how to move,

547
00:42:32,369 --> 00:42:41,724
to address conflict, to ask the right questions, how to build relationships, understanding
who to build relationships with.

548
00:42:41,724 --> 00:42:43,525
Again, this is chess.

549
00:42:43,525 --> 00:42:53,970
Then you really can give yourself a fighting chance to grow your career, whoever you are,
including you Black woman.

550
00:42:54,091 --> 00:43:00,834
But if you are just going in and you got your head down and you're like, I'm just going to
outwork them.

551
00:43:00,834 --> 00:43:02,445
You know, it don't work like

552
00:43:02,737 --> 00:43:11,574
If that was the case, a bunch of people would be in Harvard just from what's on paper and
nothing else.

553
00:43:11,574 --> 00:43:22,874
If you could just outwork them, if you could just have the best test scores, if you could
just have the best grades, if you could just outwork them, then we wouldn't have people

554
00:43:22,874 --> 00:43:32,281
wondering why their kids not getting into Ivy League when they are the valedictorians and
the salutatorians, because it's not all about the work.

555
00:43:32,335 --> 00:43:34,836
It's about your personality.

556
00:43:34,836 --> 00:43:37,877
It's about the extracurriculars you do.

557
00:43:37,877 --> 00:43:41,678
It's about how you contribute to the organization.

558
00:43:41,678 --> 00:43:42,958
Do you fit?

559
00:43:42,958 --> 00:43:44,518
Do you make yourself fit?

560
00:43:44,518 --> 00:43:45,979
Are you malleable?

561
00:43:45,979 --> 00:43:56,202
All these things, all these intangible things that you can manipulate if you understand
the environment that you're in.

562
00:43:56,202 --> 00:44:02,123
So part of your homework is if you're planning on staying with the company you work for
now.

563
00:44:02,277 --> 00:44:06,288
or you're about to start a new company in the new year.

564
00:44:06,347 --> 00:44:18,404
I want you to take time to really take stock in what are the cultural norms of the
company, who got the juice in the company, make a hit list of people who you want to make

565
00:44:18,404 --> 00:44:25,177
relationships with, and how you're going to create openings, how you're going to create
that visibility.

566
00:44:25,177 --> 00:44:30,471
I want you to evaluate what desk am I at relative to the company.

567
00:44:30,471 --> 00:44:31,972
Is this a good seat?

568
00:44:31,972 --> 00:44:33,953
Is it a not great seat?

569
00:44:33,953 --> 00:44:37,636
Am I in the back of the bus or I'm in front of the bus?

570
00:44:37,636 --> 00:44:39,317
Am I driving the bus?

571
00:44:39,317 --> 00:44:45,762
Where do I sit in regards to what's important in the company's perspective?

572
00:44:45,762 --> 00:44:46,862
Right.

573
00:44:46,891 --> 00:44:55,911
And don't get confused by people telling you that what you do is important because child,
I have had that happen to me.

574
00:44:55,911 --> 00:44:59,941
I was on the shittiest desk in the whole company and

575
00:44:59,941 --> 00:45:04,988
was sold a bill of goods when I came in the organization about how important the portfolio
was.

576
00:45:04,988 --> 00:45:06,339
Ciao!

577
00:45:08,839 --> 00:45:10,380
be bamboozled.

578
00:45:11,001 --> 00:45:24,412
So with all that said, most important thing guys is to pay attention.

579
00:45:24,533 --> 00:45:26,514
That's the most important thing.

580
00:45:26,595 --> 00:45:34,341
If you just pay attention, look at your company for the chessboard it is and play your
game.

581
00:45:34,502 --> 00:45:36,153
You're going to be all right.

582
00:45:36,539 --> 00:45:46,942
Now, if you need some help trying to figure out your chessboard, you can email me at ask
at trillmba.com.

583
00:45:46,942 --> 00:45:48,679
Is this a quick question?

584
00:45:48,679 --> 00:45:51,914
I do try to get back to you within 48 hours.

585
00:45:51,914 --> 00:45:57,305
If you email us and we don't hit you back in about two days, bring it back.

586
00:45:57,425 --> 00:45:58,726
Be persistent.

587
00:45:58,726 --> 00:45:59,926
Get your answer.

588
00:45:59,926 --> 00:46:00,846
Okay.

589
00:46:00,846 --> 00:46:03,889
Again, that's ask@trillmba.com

590
00:46:03,889 --> 00:46:08,383
If I can't help you, I will definitely find somebody who can.

591
00:46:08,383 --> 00:46:09,384
Okay.

592
00:46:09,384 --> 00:46:12,877
Listen, guys, appreciate you for listening.

593
00:46:12,877 --> 00:46:23,676
Appreciate you for sharing this with somebody you care about that is ah in these corporate
streets trying to figure out how to make it do what it do.

594
00:46:23,897 --> 00:46:26,559
until next week, guys, keep it true.

595
00:46:33,599 --> 00:46:39,719
Well guys, that's a wrap on another great episode of the Career Management Podcast for
Black Women.

596
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:41,759
Yes, girl, this show is just for you.

597
00:46:41,759 --> 00:46:52,379
We're here to tell you how to play that chessboard at work, So, subscribe, comment, like,
follow us on social media @trillmbashow.

598
00:46:52,419 --> 00:47:02,995
Listen, every time you tell one of your friends, you share this information, you share
this podcast, it helps us to grow and make even more dope content.

599
00:47:02,995 --> 00:47:05,917
just for you, unapologetically.

600
00:47:05,917 --> 00:47:07,438
That's why we're here.

601
00:47:07,478 --> 00:47:20,508
Now, if you are facing a workplace dilemma, such as a performance improvement plan, or
you're not able to secure your promotion and raise that you have worked for and you have

602
00:47:20,508 --> 00:47:27,033
deserved, basically, if these people are play playing in your face, we are here to help.

603
00:47:27,033 --> 00:47:30,409
Go to trillmba.com/coaching

604
00:47:30,409 --> 00:47:37,243
to schedule a one-time one-on-one call to workshop your specific dilemma with me.

605
00:47:37,344 --> 00:47:45,890
Or schedule a consult to get more information about the consulting packages that I do
offer on a longer-term basis.

606
00:47:45,890 --> 00:47:52,935
As always, you can reach out to us with your listener letters and your questions at
trillmba.com.

607
00:47:52,935 --> 00:47:57,478
Until next time, guys, focus on your best possible outcome.

608
00:47:57,478 --> 00:47:59,487
Ask for help when you need it.

609
00:47:59,487 --> 00:48:01,607
Please, please, please ask for help.

610
00:48:01,607 --> 00:48:04,287
And as always, keep it true.

611
00:48:04,287 --> 00:48:05,943
I'll see y'all next week.