I think the biggest takeaway I'm having right now, Heather, is that sometimes the lessons you're learning, the hard way in what you're doing can lead you to an opportunity for
board leadership.
Welcome to the True LNBA Show, the career management podcast teaching black women how to become unstoppable at work.
I'm Felicia Ann Rose A.
AKA
The Trillest MBA, delivering the inspiring truth through strategies and tactics so you feel protected, confident, and ready to conquer your career.
Hey guys, welcome back to the show.
Today is definitely one that you want to stay tuned in for the whole episode because I have a very special guest today and we are going to break down corporate board membership.
How do we get it and how do we get paid from doing it?
That's what we're talking about today.
So my special guest that I'm talking with is Heather Spillsbury.
Heather is the CEO of 50 50 Women On Boards, a global nonprofit that's moving the needle on board diversity.
Like for real y'all, not just pretend, really getting the job done.
Under Heather's leadership, the organization has tripled its reach, grown corporate contributions by 30 % and put real dollars, 84 % of their funds toward the mission of
getting more women, especially women of color,
into board seats.
She's also a marketing and operations powerhouse who's helped companies like LVMH, Moe, Nintendo, and Starbucks drive major growth.
Heather, welcome to the show.
I'm so glad you could be here today.
And I'm so excited about this topic because one, I don't know anything about it.
It's like a mystery.
Like we don't know, but we need to know.
So I'm so excited to have you here today.
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm equally excited to be here.
So I appreciate you putting attention and awareness around this conversation and promoting what we do as an organization at 50 50 women on boards.
Yay.
So now my first question for you, is there anything that you want to tell my audience about you that I didn't get a chance to say?
No, I mean, I think you really covered it.
You know, I've had an interesting career.
It actually started out at the Grammys.
wow.
Yeah.
So I was there for five years and I always loved music and it just sort of happened to fall into my lap, this opportunity.
I worked in the accounting side for a while.
And then for a brief time, I worked in the marketing department, but I always worked on the shows with the PR team.
And so that really led to my career.
I met a wonderful individual.
His name is Ron Roker, who really
I always say gifted me my marketing career.
He introduced me to this woman uh who now runs Collie Power.
Her name is Gail and she opened her arms and said, any friend of Ron is a friend of mine.
And so she had me come in and do an interview and I got to meet with some of the individuals at Edelman and that really jump started my agency career and my marketing
career.
see the power of networking.
power of networking.
I mean, it really did start back then.
mean, I think that was in 2007.
So, you know, and I don't think I think I was too young to really understand it.
But looking back, I thought, oh, this is what networking is, you have to utilize it.
Yeah.
And the reason why your ally Ron, he saw your work ethic, recognized you were a go-getter and then people decide to be your sponsor and your ally.
And so I don't want that nugget, even though we're talking about corporate boards, I don't want that nugget missed because that's so important for people to understand.
That is a huge piece of how you get a board seat.
So it is not far moved from what we're gonna talk about.
So it works out perfectly.
Perfect.
Okay.
So now let's start with the basics though, because I'll be honest with you as a worker bee that I've been my whole career so far, corporate boards, the people on the board seem like
mysterious, powerful people.
You never see them in the office.
You know that they exist because people mention them.
And when you get on the investor calls, know, people are talking about them.
But that's it.
And so the idea to actually serve on one of these boards is like, wait, what?
So first of all, let's get down to like the basic basics.
What is a corporate board and what do they do?
That's a really great question.
We could spend really the entire hour talking about this alone.
But there are different types of boards.
And we teach this in our workshop courses, our board readiness workshop courses.
There's nonprofit boards.
There's private company boards.
There's advisory boards.
There's government boards.
You've got a whole gamut of the types of boards that you can serve on.
And so public company board service, which is
Today, seen as the echelon of like where people can serve based on compensation and also visibility and just growing your own career from that standpoint.
But corporate boards are really there to provide fiduciary responsibility to the investment firms, the shareholders, key stakeholders, the company, and of course the CEO.
And they are put into place to help support the company in terms of
operating you know they're not there to operate the company.
But they're there to oversee what the company is doing and to help.
One mitigate risk.
You know think of things from a different perspective and that risk piece can really be involved in a number of different areas right whether that's financial risk whether it's
cybersecurity whether it's a I.
etcetera there's.
You know.
Variances in terms of what that could mean.
But again you're there to provide oversight to the company and to help the company continue growing.
And the reason that you're plucked for that position.
is because of your skill sets and expertise.
That's interesting.
I'm going to come back to that because, you know, there are a lot of celebrities on company boards and I want us to get into that.
But before we get into that, that is the foundational knowledge that we need to know.
Right.
But what I want to know from you, Heather, is why 50 50 women on boards?
What's what's the why for you?
why for me that is a good question.
The why for me was immediately the opportunity to help women understand the qualifications and expertise they had built over time and to be confident in it.
think oftentimes most of us, know, especially women will put our head down.
And we continue to work and we continue to educate ourselves and we continue to try to find paths to move forward.
But we don't ever stop and recognize the work that we've done and we don't talk about it enough.
And that is key.
I think we have to get more comfortable like men in touting what we do in a way that gets us to the next opportunity if that's something that you're seeking.
And so ultimately it wasn't necessarily just about
getting women to corporate board service.
It's about ensuring that women understand the value that they bring and then leveraging that value that they've gained over time to go where they want to go.
And that is again, confidence building and just seeing people um evolve from one individual who's come in and said, well, I have this expertise, but I'm not sure to
someone who can articulate what they do, how they do it and the results that they've driven.
And that's going to lead me to this follow-up question for you, Heather.
Can you share a story when you had that aha moment about your own confidence journey?
Because when you answered that, felt like that came from experience.
Like not only have you seen this in other women, but you had your own journey through evolving and growing in your career and then growing that confidence to know like, I am a
bad ass.
That's an interesting vantage point.
I've had some really good allies.
I mean, we talked about Ron already, right?
And I think throughout my career, I've had really great opportunities.
Sometimes it's fallen in my lap, sometimes it hasn't, and I've had to go out and seek it and work for it.
I think that's how most people's careers go.
There's a blend of that.
There's a blend of opportunity and there's a blend of...
If you want this, got to work for it because no one can see you yet.
um You know, I come from a household where I was trained to keep moving forward and that was really sort of my motto and it still is today.
I always tell people just keep going, keep going because you just don't know what's on the other side.
I think even in any adversity that I've ever experienced in working and, and just, you know, being at some agencies that I didn't quite like, or I knew it wasn't the right fit
for me.
I knew there was always something else on the other side.
So I always tell people to show up.
So even if it's an opportunity that you've gotten into that you're not quite sure is the right fit for you, just to continue to show up and to do the best work that you can.
Because even while you're searching for your next opportunity, whatever situation you might be in, I think the thing that I've always thought is those people can essentially
also help you in the future.
And so you never really want to burn a bridge.
And I know we hear that often and it feels like a cliche.
But it is really true.
You have to show up, you have to be proactive, and you have to deliver and be consistent.
And that is true in any area of anyone's life.
And I think when people can count on that, I think that's when you then become someone they can vouch for and recommend, whether it's for a job opportunity or for board service.
And so the way that you show up is so important.
And just to do that throughout the process, even if we have one foot out the door and you're looking for something else,
that is the way that you get recommended.
That's gold.
Heather, that is some gem dropping you just did right there.
And I so appreciate you being here today because I think people believe that there's something extra or something extraordinary that they need outside of just the career
development that they're doing right now.
uh
being a manager, being a director, I think they think, I have to be in the C-suite to be on a board or I have to do this.
So what are some of those common misconceptions that professionals may have about board service?
I think the biggest misconception sometimes, especially if you don't understand what it takes to serve as a board director, especially on a public company board, is that that
should be the goal.
And it's not always the goal.
And I see this a lot.
It's like, OK, like you just said, the next step is getting to the C-suite, and then I'm going to be a board of directors.
Board service might not be what you want to do, and it might not be right for you.
Maybe public company board service isn't right for you and you really want to stick with private, or maybe you prefer to be in the nonprofit space and that's where you want to
sit.
And that's fine.
I think what we try and do as an organization at 50-50, I say this a lot, the journey to boards can be ambiguous because the process for selecting board members is, but the
process for preparing yourself does not have to be ambiguous.
And so,
In our courses, we teach you the board fundamentals is one of our courses.
We teach you that.
We teach you what is a board, what types of boards are there, what types of committees are there, what does it take to serve, what skill sets and expertise do I need, what's the
time commitment, what's the potential compensation, or what's the potential give get if you're on a nonprofit, meaning you have to fundraise or.
you know, pay out of pocket a certain amount, depending on the size of the nonprofit.
But those are the things that I always encourage people, if you don't know anything about board service, take that course, because that gives you insight into really what this is
all about.
Not necessarily all of the insight into risk and what risk you're taking on when you are a public company director, but at least it helps you determine, this right for me?
And if it is, or if I want to explore it, you know,
where should I start?
And that helps provide people with some guidance.
you know, understanding really what it takes to be a director, I think is the first step.
Okay.
And so I think the thing is that people, lot of times just, especially women, right?
We tell ourselves no before we allow somebody else to tell us no.
And so when you think about the real criteria that companies use for selecting board members, what is some of that?
Like I may need a readiness course.
It's true, but
how do I know that I'm even ready for a readiness course, right?
Like, how do I know that I've done the right things and gained the right skill sets in order to be eligible for being on a corporate board?
And I'm focusing on the paid public boards because I guess they're like the holy grail.
I personally have served on nonprofit boards and had to raise money because I was on a nonprofit board.
I currently serve in an advisory capacity for the Black Marketers Association of America board.
So I give my time and talents and money to that as well.
So for me, like I would maybe want to serve on a board someday.
How do I even know what the real criteria is?
based on your skillset and your expertise and the value you would bring to boards right and so board composition.
Tends to be if a board is practicing good corporate governance you know they have a they have a board matrix there's a board composition they have certain people maybe already in
place that have.
Certain skill sets at that company needs to help drive them forward so for example if you're you know on.
The board of uh let's say an electric car company.
That company is potentially looking for people with uh obviously financial skills is important so usually they'll have someone who's got a financial background that can serve
on the audit and finance committee.
They're going to want somebody with tech experience, probably cyber AI, you name it because it's an electric car company.
They're going to want somebody who has energy experience, who understands what it means to serve in the energy industry.
and also the regulatory uh needs and requirements of that.
So when you're having conversations about the company and its growth, what does that look like even from a global standpoint?
And then there's other pieces and parts, right?
But it depends on your skillset.
So if you, Felicia, had a specific skillset that you were trained in, then that skillset is something you can continue developing over time to then qualify to serve as a board
director because you've honed in on that expertise and skillset.
Oftentimes boards do want someone who can immediately serve on a committee.
So again, if your background, let's say is finance, then your financial background would be relevant on the compensation committee.
And again, finance or audit, or sometimes they're combined.
So it is dissecting that in our course, again, board fundamentals, like what is your skillset and expertise?
And if you don't know that yet, where do you wanna lean?
Because then we walk you through this is what they're looking for.
It's also about your
influence and sometimes relevant so I know you mentioned sometimes there's celebrity board members in the area sometimes that's because they have a stake in the company so they're
an investor in the company and so they're sitting on the board- and so there at forty probably has a certain tenure- um and then they exit off that board depending on how
involved they are in the in the company itself or if they.
Helped you know.
Put capital into the company that's why they could be sitting there as well and not all not always the case but in some cases.
Um, and so again, it's, it's, it's understanding what the board needs and requires.
And as companies evolve, the board also evolves.
Hopefully sometimes it doesn't, but if they're practicing good corporate governance, the board also evolves.
know right now in today's climate, there's a lot of, public companies that are also bringing in experts to help on certain topics, right?
Whether it's tariffs, you know, whether it's other advice that they need to, help.
combat certain risk that is eventually going to be part of the company's oversight and also in the board's oversight.
But something that could impact the company, there's a potential to bring in an expert to help serve as guidance to the board.
That's good to know because, you know, my friends and I, nerd out on business things being an MBA and we've been talking about the impacts of the political climate, right?
And the volatility in the market.
Like we discuss these things over dinner because things like tariffs don't impact a lot of people's day-to-day jobs.
But there's a lot of us that
Like for me in a marketing function, if I working in a company, I'm the spoke of the will.
So operations, procurement, those people are relying on me to make sure that I'm driving P and L certain P and L levers to make sure that we make our plan and we make our profit and
then we get our bonuses.
Right.
And so I think a lot of times we take for granted what these stop
gaps and disruptions cause, because tariffs mean that your procurement prices go up.
So now I have to make a decision as a business leader, you know, do I take price?
But then now I've got to talk to my customer marketing team who is closer with our customers, who's going to be upset if we try to take price.
And now we've got to manage that relationship and figure out how to mitigate the cost of
goods that we are importing in because that's what we use to make the product that we're making to sell.
It's a whole thing.
And literally now, because this person is in office saying these things, I now am having to disrupt my natural workflow to take these emergency meetings.
And these things are happening to
people that I know that we are, I call us the worker bees, right?
And I think we take for granted how much we're learning in that process and how much we know about how to manage supply chain issues.
Like I remember when I was working for a Fortune 500, won't name, but there was an aluminum cam shortage globally and I had to still make plan.
even though I wasn't on the brand and the portfolio that you would make sure that that brand got cans.
But my little brand, which wasn't so little, it's still millions of dollars annually, almost $100 million annually, but still not billions of dollars.
And so maybe you don't need so many cans.
But if I don't have a certain amount of cans, I can't make plans.
So what we talking about?
um And then having to put together a plan to mitigate that risk, whether it's trying to shift our customer partners into different sizes of packaging for the product and, you
know, working on different deals for bottles instead of cans and then negotiating in the building, outside the building with your suppliers to get more cans and talking to our uh
counterparts in.
the UK and in Asia trying to negotiate cans with them.
Like it was wild.
I had never had to do anything like that before, but these things happen.
And I think the biggest takeaway I'm having right now, Heather, is that sometimes the lessons you're learning, the hard way in what you're doing can lead you to an opportunity
for board.
leadership.
Exactly.
mean, when you were talking about the different issues that you dealt with, you know, it really is a supply chain and regulatory experience that you're gaining there and in a
volatile time and how and then the outcome of that is also very important, right?
So did you make plan?
if you said, well, then see, and then those are the results that you share.
when you're at the point of inflection and you decide, hey, I would like to
continue to increase my skillset in this area and then potentially position myself for board service.
These are the types of points you put in your board profile.
You talk about your supply chain experience and your global experience in helping to mitigate that risk and to still meet plan under a very regulated industry, right?
And those are the key points that you draw, including a percentage point of the results that you drove.
And that's what boards look for.
want to know, does someone have experience in helping to one, mitigate this potential problem?
But also if we are in this situation, you know, finding a plan or a path forward to get us out and not that you would have on a public company board, to be clear, not that you would
have any operational role in that, but you would have strategic advisory role in that to help support the board and
the CEO and their decision for the management team to move forward with.
Nice.
So can you share a success story from 50 50 women on boards that speaks to strategy over status?
Somebody who maybe doesn't have a platform, maybe isn't known, but they've been very successful in becoming paid to be a leader, a board leader and join some corporate boards.
I would say our 50 Women to Watch for Boards program is that, you know, when I launched that in 2023, it really was something that was a, it was in part because of all the talent
that I saw going through our workshops.
really understanding more and more as I continue working with this organization is that there are so many talented women, especially women of color.
And I think there's not a pipeline issue, as we all know.
There's an issue for ensuring that boards are searching, especially non-gov chairs of the board are searching outside of their network for potential candidates that really do have
the expertise and skill set to serve on that board.
You know, it happens a lot where you see particular board people, especially people of color, being tapped for multiple board opportunities because they're known in that
ecosystem and someone can vouch for them.
you gotta bring other people along.
And so with 50 Women to Watch, I really wanted to highlight women who were already ready for public company board service.
They have the skills, they have the expertise, they have all the training, they're getting mentorship through our selection committee, of course, but they have everything that they
need to be able to serve on a board.
Now it's just a matter of making them visible.
And so aside from the education and training we provide, plus the mentorship,
The visibility for those board candidates to be seen and then put them in situations where they can also network and connect with some of these individuals that already serve on
multiple boards is so beneficial to their career in board service.
And 20 % of our first cohort have already secured public company board seats.
And our 2024 group just finished all of their training.
again, we want to continue showing that impact.
I want to be clear, we don't place women.
but we try and help elevate them so that they can get placed.
And that's really important to me.
So it showcases, one, not only our organization's impact, but to your point, showcases how someone can use strategy to get on a board as opposed to status.
Right.
I know we talk about it's not what you know, it's who you know.
But I think in this case, it actually is a lot of what you need to know and what you need to learn and then the who you need to know.
Exactly.
It goes hand in hand.
And I think that's what 50 women on board is delivering for us.
Yeah, yeah, and it goes back to the first point I made about your network is key.
Who you are networking with and connecting with is key to your career, it's key to your board journey, it's really key to helping you understand how does this ecosystem of board
directors work?
You know, what do I need to know?
Because outside of any training that you're gonna get, once you actually serve on a board, whether it's nonprofit, private or public, you have a deeper understanding of what it
takes to be a board member.
But then you start to also interact with other directors.
Some of them are also, even on your nonprofit board, some of your directors there might also be serving on public company boards.
So we always say, use that as an opportunity to let people know you're searching for your next board opportunity, but also in a way where you're connecting with them and getting to
know them and building a relationship.
Because that is the key, because they're seeing you in action.
They can eventually vouch for you.
But if you don't tell anybody you're searching for a board seat and you're not sharing that, then they don't know.
Nuggets.
With that said, we're going to take a quick break.
And when we come back, we're going to talk about what is it like inside the boardroom?
Heather's going to spill the tea when we get back.
Hey guys, so we have digital tools that accompany each episode to help you work through some of the tactics and strategies that you need to put into place so that you're thriving
at work.
So go to TrillMBA.com and if you haven't already, sign up for our freebies and you'll get access to not only these digital tools that go with these episodes,
but you'll also get access to every digital tool I've ever created that's free to you to help you in your career.
Now, let's get back to the show.
m
All right guys, welcome back from the break.
Today we're talking all about corporate boards.
Oh, plot twist, there's more than just corporate boards guys, but we found that out already.
But we're getting into what goes on inside that boardroom.
And I'm here today with Heather Spillsbury.
She's the CEO of 50 50 Women on Boards.
So Heather, we're gonna jump back into it.
My next question is,
Tell us about board dynamics.
What is it like for a new person based on some of the people who've taken the courses at 50-50 Women on Boards?
Give us the tea, girl.
Like, what is going on when you finally break through and get in that room?
I think when you finally break through, you've probably already had several rounds of interviews.
And this process can really take anywhere from a month to a year.
It just really depends on where the board is in their search and how long it takes them to vote a member in and, you know, have a conversation with the wider board or especially
committees if that's also something that this person is going to be serving on.
So you've had the opportunity to interview.
We always tell people that they should also take the opportunity during the interview process, if you're continuing in that process, to ask whoever you're interviewing with if
you can also have a conversation with some of the other board members.
Now, if they've already got a great board plan in place for how they search for candidates and onboard, typically that's already part of the process.
But if it doesn't happen to be, then you should request it or ask for it.
And they'll typically connect you with with two or three people that serve on the board and the reason we say that is because as much as it is to have the skill set and expertise
to serve on the board the other piece of it is also the relationship that you're going to have with these other board directors and the culture and.
If you're going to spend that much time serving on a company board even if the compensation is very attractive you have to ensure that.
it's the right fit for you.
And if it's not the right fit for you to recommend someone else in your network.
And sometimes that's really what it comes down to during the interview process too.
Another candidate is chosen because of the cultural fit or because of this or because of that, or because they have this life experience or perspective.
So, you know, it's important to keep going with the process.
And if it doesn't work out, that's okay.
You've gone through that process.
And I always say you learn a lot from the interview process itself.
And that just only prepares you for the next
interview in the next round of the process that you would get through with another board.
But if you're selected and you're finally sitting in that seat, then you have one.
You have all the public knowledge.
everything is, you you can read the proxy statement, you can read all the uh information on the company, the board composition, the compensation, even of those board directors.
So you really at this point probably already know the company itself really well and why they brought you in.
Remember that you're there to serve within that lens.
And recently we had a LinkedIn live conversation about serving as a corporate director with two of my favorite corporate directors, John Driver and Joe Heard.
And they really spelled this out so clearly.
So if anyone wants to take a look at that too, they're welcome to.
But I'll succinctly uh share some of that knowledge with you all here.
And yes, you should hone in on why you were brought in.
So.
cybersecurity that's great that you have that expertise but you also need to look at it from an additional lens right from a holistic lens- em because having a general
perspective.
For the company is also really important so yes it's great to have a specific skill set and expertise but you're not there for only that anymore you're also there really for
oversight and I think Joe described it as as a T.
shape.
You know you go deep when you need to but you also need to go wide.
And then, you know, being a strategic advisor, a board member that can be collaborative and have difficult conversations because you're not always going to agree.
And even in those first couple meetings, really absorbing the information, you don't necessarily have to share something incredibly thought provoking in the first meeting
because you're walking into a conversation that's already started and you're now joining it.
So you can take
a couple of steps back and take in the information.
And then a lot of it is really leading with curiosity.
And I think that's what you do in a leadership role, right?
You have to ask the questions, you have to ask the right questions.
And you're searching for information to help not only the CEO, but the other board directors think about it from a different perspective and a different lens, especially
when it's a difficult conversation.
And so that is key.
It's framing
the questions in the right way, having those conversations and wanting to really serve for that company.
Because again, you yourself take on risk and you need to be prepared for that.
oh So, wait, wait, wait, Heather, hold on, hold on, hold on.
What you just described sounds like a job job.
And I think one of the myths, and I ain't even gonna blame y'all.
I'm gonna take this L for all of us.
One of the myths I've had is that the corporate board life was cushy.
uh you meet.
Once a quarter, you're paid six plus figures to just share your opinion because you have knowledge and you've worked.
You over here talking about an interview process?
It could take a month, could take a year.
That sounds like being out here with us regular folks like, what?
mean, when you're searching for new board directors, it's typically the process that it takes, which is why it's so important to build your network, right?
Because if someone can vouch for you, that process may shorten.
um And it also provides you with an additional inroad to serve on that board and have some backup and support.
um It is work, though.
I think that is another misconception.
I think one of the misconceptions we talked about before was that
People think that that's the next sort of step and they have to do that.
Not necessarily, it might not be right for you.
But the second one is that it's easy and it's not.
And I think it probably used to be a lot easier, but in today's world, it has become more complicated.
And because they are public companies, there is a lot more at stake and involved, especially after recent events such as Enron and other things that took place, right?
Rules were then implemented and those rules are important.
And I think if we can build some more rules around corporate governance itself, then we would also see the pipeline of talent continue to evolve, which it should.
You know, you still have some, some boards out there that have had directors on for 20 plus years.
know, if they got on their first board at 50 some, then, you know, it's sometimes it's time to exit certain board members.
So I think there is something to be said about having some.
rules in place that serve that purpose, but as we know, sometimes that's not as easy and it's not part of the process currently.
Yeah, because being on a board is power, right?
And I think people don't want to let go of it.
They perceive there's this power and they don't want to let go of this perceived power of being on boards.
But I think that we all, any shareholders, any people who have stake in a public company, we all have to advocate for better fiduciary responsibility.
from our corporate governance, right?
So what is the biggest mind shift professionals will need to make when stepping into a board seat?
Because again, you have blown my mind here today.
Like this isn't the cushy opportunity that I thought it was.
So how do we get our minds together for this?
Well you're sitting again a strategic advisory role you know you're not in operational role so the mind shift there is there is a management team you know it's also good to get
to know the management team and to understand what they do.
And then you know based on the size of the company sometimes they'll bring in management to present and share and so that's also I think helpful for board directors to wrap their
head around what is the day to day process going through that we have to keep in mind when we're providing our strategic advice but.
You're there with a different set of responsibilities and your responsibility is to again the company the CEO the investors in the shareholders and key stakeholders and so you're
you're sitting in a seat where you've got to consider all of those perspectives as well when you're making recommendations or asking the right questions.
uh But it's not easy you know there is a lot of reading you know of course sports trying.
personally get together so that they can have some of that community because you do spend a lot of time together.
And again, like I said, I think boards have evolved.
I think it used to be this cushy thing, come in, make a decision, walk out the door, get paid.
It's not that anymore.
And it definitely has become more complicated as businesses become more complicated and more global.
Something that I think many of us are struggling with is authenticity and showing up in our uniqueness, our gifts, abilities.
Like for me, I have a particular sense of humor.
I've always had to dampen that down because some people would deem that I'm professional.
This podcast, I get to be more in my own personality.
I don't think I'm way far off the mark of professionalism, but...
you know, in my mind in these kind of settings, well, you have to be, you know, super buttoned up and all that stuff.
And that just seems, I don't know if that's really good for your mental health.
I don't know.
Now that I'm seeing this, I'm kind of scared, Heather.
You scared me because I'm like, this sounds like just having to be at another job.
And so now I'm like, well, why would you want to do this if it's not the cushy um anymore?
And it sounds like it could be a highly political
situation because at the end of the day, you're just managing a bunch of relationships.
Or have I created a new misconception in that?
I mean, I think you really have to consider if it's right for you, right?
yes, I think, you know, interesting that you say that about authenticity.
I mean, a lot of corporate directors in the work that we do and through a lot of our partnerships too and events and that we host and they're all really down to earth, lovely
people, you know, that are serving on maybe not the public companies that we all know, but they're serving on public company boards and they feel a responsibility.
I think the biggest reason that people find themselves in this work is one, they want to continue honing in on those skill sets.
Boards also are looking for people that are still sitting in their operational role because they don't want someone who's necessarily retired.
They want someone who's still gaining that experience and still understands what's happening in the workforce today and the work world today and the world generally.
So, you know, that has also shifted.
And I think that's also important to note that they want someone with that expertise and
Likewise, you also want to be in that seat because you can then take what you're learning and apply that to what you're doing in your role.
And that's why we at 50 50 always encourage companies.
Yes, let your employees, your senior leaders serve on boards because it adds so much value to the company itself.
So you're gaining value, but then you're also bringing that back to your own company.
And, know, uh
A way that doesn't conflict with anything right there's no you're not sharing anything.
That you can't share but you're learning how to approach certain situations and problem solve in a way that you may not have not thought of if you didn't serve on that board.
And you know to your point again the reason for it is because you want to continue in your career and if you do eventually retire and you're sitting on one public company board and
then want to secure your next it's a great way to continue.
being in your role without having a nine to five job, you know, and using the value that you've gained over the years to apply it to something.
And I think that's a majority of the reason that most directors take on this responsibility.
You know, something that struck me is at what level should you rise to, like, could I be at a director level, which is that beginning management level in most companies, right?
When you become a director in a company.
So can I be a director or my
most previous role in corporate was a senior director and will a board, maybe not in the top, you know, 500, but like, would a corporate board consider me because I do have almost
20 years in the game and I've seen a lot, I've done a lot and I have risen to a certain level in my career.
Would I
be eligible?
Is that a possibility?
That's what I'm thinking now because there's a lot of my audience members like me who are, you know, senior manager, director, senior director level.
They haven't made VP yet, but could it be a good idea if they work for big, these big dog companies like I have, I have all these fortune 500 names on my resume.
Could they be useful at a company that's maybe fortune 1000?
or Fortune 2000, right?
They're mid-sized companies and you know, they're scaling and they're doing a great job, but they really could use what you've taken from the companies who've already scaled and
who already are more mature to come in and say, hey, here's some best practices.
potentially I think there's still border still searching for people who are in the C.
suite.
Or it equates to the C.
suite based on the size of the company right.
um I think when directors are brought in typically that's in there within their own company and their own board to help present materials etcetera and so I think that's where
you can take advantage of meeting other board members and networking and building relationships and inroads there too.
I think it.
again depends on the size of the company depends on the company you're coming from.
And if that company has a name to you I think that's also sometimes important right but usually they're looking for people that are in the C.
suite and that's also the reason that there is this.
Push and pull right when women are joining boards because we all know there's not as many women in the C.
suite as there are men.
Especially when you look at the CEO role and so that's the reason that it's important for.
companies to continue diversifying their leadership and for other organizations who are working on this to continue making that a priority.
And that's where you come to that sort of wall where it's like, well, again, there's not enough women there.
So how are we going to find the right talent?
and there's also some boards who are looking for Gen Z board members.
And so they come in, provide some valuable advice, expertise based on a certain topic, and they engage them in that way.
There's advisory board roles that directors are great for.
Outside of nonprofit and private, advisory board roles are a fantastic way to get that experience and to expose yourself to a different network.
Okay, that is amazing.
So I don't feel so bad because I can look at advisory board work to start and then keep working on either being my own CEO of my own company, which that's what I'm working on
now, or keep trying to rise the ranks.
Just a personal antidote so you would know personally why I'm invested in this.
outside of diversifying and putting more women in leadership.
When I was in business school, it was the summer of 2009, I was interning at Johnson & Johnson in New Jersey.
And right before my internship, it was announced that Ursula Burns was going to be the CEO of Xerox.
And I was like, my God, it's possible.
Because here was this...
chocolatey looking black woman with natural hair.
And I was just like, I can really do this.
Cause I was in business school, but I think there was a part of me that just, because there was no black woman CEO, that that was just not really a thing.
And so, you know, I just thought, man.
But then when I saw that it just opened up.
a world to me in my mind of belief that, oh this is possible for you too.
And so since then, I've been very excited about climbing this ladder with all the nooks and crannies and bumps and bruises along the way.
the reason why I started this podcast was for this very type of conversation.
to get us information about how do we keep going.
And I'm so glad that you talked about earlier, just keep going.
Because I'm gonna be honest with you, when you said, you gotta be in the C-suite, I felt a little discouraged because there aren't that many black women in the C-suite.
I'm hoping that today will be that moment when Ursula Burns became the CEO.
that you hear this and you take away like, but I can, I can do this.
And I'm glad that an organization like 50 50 women on boards exists so that there's somewhere to go to get information.
I appreciate that.
Yeah, and I also appreciate you sharing that I think it is important for for all of us to see people that we can admire and we can say this is possible.
But I also think that it's important to remember that if you know, as part of the, the keep moving forward that I always lean in on, it means also
to look at the opportunity in a realistic way, right?
If you're at a company and you've been working and over-preparing yourself and really have done the job that should be getting you to that next level and you're not, then that's
also an opportunity for you to look at maybe this isn't the company that's going to accept me in that role, but there is a company out there that will.
And so when I say keep going, it also means being strategic about your journey.
doesn't mean sticking with the same thing and hoping to change it because sometimes you can't, right?
Especially if you don't see other diverse leaders in that company, that's a clear sign.
I wish as a younger individual, someone would have said, hey, take a look at the makeup of the leadership team and a makeup of the board and see if they have a diverse composition.
not just race, gender, also experience expertise.
want, you want to take a look and understand, do they care about elevating the people that are most qualified or is this a network that I won't be able to break into?
I won't name names, but there was a company that I worked for at a young age and it was, it was that everybody in the C-suite and executive leadership were white and male and
You reach a certain point where you go, well, I'm not going to get anywhere past this.
So what I'm to do now is take my expertise skill set that I learned here.
Thank you very much.
And I'm going to find a different opportunity to keep going.
So that ladder can include a plateau that then includes another ladder.
again, right.
So you just, again, it's important to look at it from that perspective.
And to your point, it's not always a straight line.
And there is opportunity there, but you have to
be realistic and be strategic about it.
Thank you.
That was awesome.
Heather, you're so on point right there.
And thank you for sharing that.
If it wasn't encouragement to anybody else, it was encouragement for me.
And with that said, we're going to take one more quick break.
And when we come back, we're going to talk about how to strategically plan your path to the boardroom when we get back.
Let me ask you something.
How many times have you watched less competent folks get promoted while you just stay stuck?
I've seen this so many times.
The whole reason why this show exists is I was like, what am I doing wrong?
I would always blame myself.
And if you're like me, you're probably sitting there doing that too.
And the thing is, it's not your work and it's not you.
It's actually your career strategy.
You don't have one.
That is the fundamental problem.
Your hard work alone doesn't get you promoted.
Strategy gets you promoted.
So I have the FastTrack system.
It's for high performing professionals like you who are ready to create their career strategy using the pie framework.
This is very tactical to the point.
Okay.
So you'll walk away with a personal power plan that shows you exactly where you're strong, where you're invisible, and how to shift your career strategy without compromising who you
are.
So now if you click the link in the show notes, you can go to the page where you can get this fast track system.
You already have what it takes.
You just need a strategy that works for you.
And that's what this system does.
So.
Click the link in the show notes and grab it while it's on sale, because honey, the price is going to go up, okay?
So again, go to the show notes, click the link, and get your plan together, before they hand your next promotion to a Chad or a Bob.
Now, let's get back to the show.
Hey guys, we're back.
Before we wrap up this show, I just have a couple more questions for Heather, for us, you know, to make sure that we're doing the things now, Heather, we got to do the right things
now, even though they're looking for people in the C-suite, we may or may not get to the C-suite, but maybe there's some things we can do that start positioning ourselves for
board service later on.
So like, what's the number one thing you tell younger professionals who are
at the manager, director, senior director level that they need to be doing and thinking about now.
question.
And it's part of the reason we brought in board fundamentals as part of our workshop training it was because we weren't really reaching that early to mid career.
So women that were taking our get on board course probably five years ago.
We're coming in and taking it at sixty five plus.
And at that point like we talked about before it's almost too late because one boards want someone who.
Is potentially still sitting in an operational role and not retired.
But to.
You can't build.
awareness and you can't prepare if you don't know what the opportunity entails.
So board fundamentals does that.
It teaches you what it takes and how to serve and what skill sets to build up.
And you get to meet a corporate director within that workshop and have a conversation about your board journey.
And they can tell you and give you advice for where to lean in and where to continue to ask for more opportunity.
And then beyond that, it's networking.
Whether it's through our organization and the events we hold,
You know, we pair women based on their career level so they can have a conversation with a corporate director in person at our strategic networking events.
And that's key.
So getting out there, you know, I don't know if you've we've talked about this before, but even just building your own network of individuals who can help advise you, um taking a
look at the people you admire and reaching out to them and asking to have a conversation about their own journey.
People love talking about themselves.
They won't turn you down to do that.
So.
take advantage of it and let them know what you're looking for and what you're searching for.
And even if that first step is nonprofit, you can gain a lot of experience on corporate governance and how that works and how the boardroom operates.
And again, take the time to figure out what opportunity is best for you.
But that would be my advice for any of those early career is to understand what the opportunity is.
If that's something that interests you, then start to build your skill sets towards that and continue to upskill and also network.
And those three things really help drive how your board journey might play out in the future.
Right.
And so just so we can drive for some clarity, the opportunity to serve on a corporate board is actual work.
It is a another job and it's a job that people compensate you for, but it is work.
it's something just like getting a full-time job.
You have to interview for it's something you have to network towards.
you have to let people know you're interested in doing this.
So
basically the same things that you would do to get a job, it sounds like, are the same things you need to do to prepare for corporate board leadership where you're paid to
actually serve on a board.
And then on top of that, based on the conversation we had today, not only do you need to have deep expertise that the board is looking for,
but you also have to have a breadth of knowledge, business knowledge, and acumen that you can bring to help serve in a strategic and advisory role.
Did I get that right?
We have learned today, ladies.
Listen, first, thank you so much for your time, Heather.
This has been great.
Where can we go to learn more about opportunities and ways to prepare for corporate board leadership?
Well, you can go to our website, which is 5050wob.com.
You can find all of our workshop training courses there for early to mid-career, senior level women, and then we have courses for every career level.
And of course, all of our events are listed there as well.
So it's a great way to strategically network with corporate directors.
And then you can also see our research there.
And that also helps give you some background in terms of how women have projected in the pipeline up to corporate board service.
And then in addition to that, have a campaign called 50 Women to Watch for Boards.
And this is an annual campaign that we run.
Again, it's giving women who are ready for public company board service visibility for their board candidacy and also training and mentorship.
And this launches every year on International Women's Day, March 8th.
So it's an initiative that we continue to push out year over year.
Applications for this year for 2025 will close May 7th.
So by the time this airs, it'll probably have passed the deadline, but you can always apply the following March of the following year.
So if you know someone in your network who would be great for this program, you can always encourage them to apply as well.
Awesome.
Yes, I definitely nominated a number of people that I was like, you do this.
They might be a little junior still, but they definitely have, I think all of the goods to be in corporate board leadership.
And I think they'd make great additions to any organization looking for strategic business acumen to.
uh
continue to thrive and be profitable in this volatile market that we're in today.
So, Heather, thank you for coming on the show.
Thank you for giving us all of the nuggets about corporate boards and being a resource to us.
Where can people connect with you if they want to connect with you?
Yeah, on LinkedIn is great or you can send me an email.
My email is really easy.
It's heather at 5050wob.com.
I really appreciate that.
That was very generous.
Now listen guys, act right.
Don't be blowing Heather up.
cannot put you on a board.
Okay.
Yeah, we don't do that, but we cannot train.
Awesome.
Well, everyone, come back next week for another dope conversation filled with all the info you need to navigate your career and get paid, get promoted.
That's what we all about.
That's what we do here at the Trill MBA Show.
So thank you, Heather, again, and we will see you guys next week.
Thank you.
Well guys, that's a wrap on another great episode of the Career Management Podcast for Black Women.
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