That is so key.
When you feel that agitation, when the voice in your head gets louder, like this ain't it.
And then you have to go on this journey.
And part of that journey is, I've got to break everything I thought was the safe and right thing to do.
Welcome to the Trill MBA Show, the career management podcast teaching Black women how to become unstoppable at work.
Felicia and Rose Enuha aka the Trillest MBA, delivering the inspiring truth through strategies and tactics.
So you feel protected, confident, and ready to conquer your career.
Hey guys, I am so excited because today's guest is one of my favorite strategists and truth tellers, Ronnie Dickerson Stewart.
She's coached C-suite executives, built a seven figure business, and now she's pulling back the curtain on what it really takes to thrive at work when the rules were never made
for you in the first place.
Now, if that ain't real, I don't know what it is.
We're talking about the power of breaking the rules
strategically what real networking looks like and how to remix your career on your own terms.
This episode is going to be full of gems for anyone who's ready to stop performing and start designing a work life that actually works.
So let's get into it.
Ronnie Dickerson Stewart, welcome to the show.
Welcome back.
Honored to be here more than one time.
I'm like, wait a second, Felicia is inviting me back.
Something must have went right.
So I feel really, really excited to be here with you.
You're looking at me like, what Ronnie?
No, seriously.
To be here with you in the guest chair, knowing honestly the impact that you've set out to make and what you continue to do for people is important.
And I want to give honor to the host.
So all honor to you for doing what you do as well as uh very delighted to have the invitation to be back with you.
Girl, listen, I think both of us are really and truly honoring the gifts and the purpose that God put us here for.
And we were trying to help the people.
And that's why you back because your episode was so empowering.
I so many emails last season about where is this person?
How can I get in touch with them?
One of my friends was like, I need a coach.
Do you think she, I was like yeah, and then I hit you up and I was like, hey Ronnie, are you taking coaching classes?
And you were like, no, I'm full.
I was like, of course.
I mean, in the interest of boundaries, right?
I mean, that's an entirely different episode.
It's like when you want to show up and frankly serve people, there are a lot of people who will say, yeah, I say yes to everything.
And then the other side of it is not even lack of impact, sometimes harm.
So I'm like, I do my best work in alignment.
And I'm like, when it's a yes, it's a yes.
When it's a no, it's a sincere and well thought out no.
No, you didn't know who it was.
just simply said, hey, are you taking new clients?
You said, nope, not today.
You oh
Books and busy.
Maybe Q4, maybe.
Circle bang.
I mean, that's even a...
I hope we dive into that conversation because even then down to seasonality of when I decide to show up and do my best work, it's been very important to sometimes reject what I
had adopted in my system as like Q4 is a rush, Q4 is a hustle.
This is when you know, I don't necessarily adopt that even.
Yeah, no, we, this is why I wanted you in particular for this conversation because you have been somebody in your career who did all the right things, right?
You followed the rules, you went to school, you got a good job, you did well at your jobs and you rose the ranks and you got to the C-suite, you did everything you were supposed to
do.
And then something happened.
So I want you to share.
Like what breaking the rules has looked like in your career and why you felt it was necessary, especially, you know, at a point in time where people may not have understood
the pivot and the change and the purpose driven work that you're doing now.
Ooh, as you described, like, I've done this, I've done that, and this kind of even verbally, it sounds like a very linear trajectory.
I think I'll start with the idea that I started out knowing there were some rules even in place that were those that I needed to, might want to consider abiding by, frankly, in the
interest of just being okay.
Background is, you know,
all the things that might be relatable to others.
So I won't even copy and paste those with respect to people who told you to show up to a place, do a good job, keep doing that.
So that the outcomes of that would match either what your expectations were or what their hopes were for you.
Again, back in the interest of being safe.
So when I consider what the inflection points were,
The course of my career has been enthusiastic learning and adoption and even I would dare say assimilation to some of these like known rules or the quest to try to just really
figure them out, which is confounding and head scratching for so many people.
And it was for me too, like the type of complexities in the workplace.
And I'm like, why are people this way?
Why are they doing things like this?
Why am I not okay?
Why am I crying under my desk?
Like all the ranges of feelings, like I didn't know how I.
deal with this, I would try to figure out through conversations, mentorships, or I spent a lot of time in the aisles of Borders bookstores, shout out to Borders, RIP, after work
hours, maybe after picking myself up from crying under my desk to figure out how do you do this thing called work while also launching my adult life.
Fast forward across the spectrum of my experience as you think about the latter or trajectory.
towards all these positions or titles that some people admire and even I have held in high regard as this goal like just get to the C-suite, do all these things, get that title, be
a vice president.
All those things were attached to what I thought I was supposed to do to be okay, as well as what was modeled for me that people were doing real time to be okay.
And so I just followed those things to the best of my ability and the outcomes did yield results that some people would find admirable.
But a lot of that broke down for me in the middle of it because real life started happening.
I started experiencing loss.
I started experiencing discomfort and misalignment with the work that was in front of me.
I started to question whether or not my highest use was focused on very specific things that I was getting paid for.
And that felt so uncomfortable.
And I guess that agitation was the starting point of breaking the rules.
It's like bit of understanding there were rules and then experiencing a level of discomfort that was consistent enough to question what I should be doing moving forward.
Right.
And Chris, I need you to put a ding when she says that agitation.
That is so key.
When you feel that agitation, when the voice in your head gets louder, like this ain't it.
And the scary part is you don't ever know what is it right then, like right there.
And then you have to go on this journey.
And part of that journey is
I've got to break everything I thought was the safe and right thing to do.
Can you talk about some of the fear you had at that moment of agitation and knowing that I'm misaligned?
Ooh, it wasn't even that cute or clean.
I'm always be here and with you and your audience and keep it above.
When I first recognized the agitation, I was like, ooh, don't be feeling like that now.
That goes against what you're supposed to feel.
And there is no other, like for me, when you're in that fight, flight, fear, freeze, eff it zone, what's really happening inside of you is you're thinking in binaries, yes, no,
right, wrong.
And you're not necessarily in a space
where you're thinking optimally about possibility.
So at the point of agitation, I was definitely in that fight or flight, like this is not okay, I feel unsafe or I feel threatened essentially.
So the options weren't even clear to me about what to do next.
However, my learned behavior was just get through it and then be okay or numb it or get to a point of apathy or just go with the flow or just lean on a system or like all those
things that...
If folks are being really honest with themselves, they likely have experienced when they have reached a point of agitation or disinterest without a space where they had a very
clear thing on the horizon that would either eliminate the agitation or be something that they could test into.
And those earlier points actually just dug in more.
There was a tipping point moment.
I remember in my career, I was preparing to be a vice president.
I wasn't even 30 yet, but I knew I was going to be promoted.
And I was in my office and I was sitting there and I knew this was on the trajectory.
I don't know what the triggering point was.
Maybe I was doing a spreadsheet.
Shout out to spreadsheets and math and all the things that I'm doing at that time in media strategy as a person who does not inherently like math.
Dilligently, my Virgo spirit doing all these things very perfectly.
So overanalyzing things and having that stress and then looking out and saying, is this my life?
I'm doing this very well and putting points on the board for doing a good job.
But is this going to be my life?
I'm living into this thing that I don't want to.
And so I got out of my office and ran down the street to a partner office that was a part of our holding company for the ad agency network I worked for at the time to speak to a
mentor who picked up the phone and said, come over and chat.
And that was the catalyst for considering another possibility that would help me alleviate the agitation.
It was one voicing what was going on and then finding a space, a person,
a place or thing where I could sort my feelings and thoughts and maybe get to a point where I wasn't in fight, flight, fear, freeze, eff it, maybe getting to a neutral point so
I can make the right decisions for myself.
Of course, with some sound wisdom and stuff in tow too with a mentor that hopefully people do have access to people with good wisdom and who are regulated to give you good wisdom
when you do reach those zones.
But that person told me, hey, get your money and then have leverage to make decisions
after you get the promotion.
I hadn't even thought about it that way.
I never thought, I just said, I don't want that thing because this will be my whole life for the next 30 years.
And they were like, you're tripping, get your money, get the title, and then you have so much more leverage to design what happens next.
That's actually what happened when I actually reached a point of agitation.
I freaked out.
That's real.
And thank you for sharing that because so many people have told me, oh, I don't want to be promoted.
And I'd be like, OK, but let's talk about why.
Well, I've seen what my boss does and I don't want to have to do that for the rest of my life.
And I'm like, who said you had to do this?
First of all, who said you had to do the role like your boss?
Maybe the fact you're getting promoted means they want somebody to do it a little different.
And
Who said you gonna do this role for the rest of your life?
The higher you climb, the shorter you gonna be in that role.
Only rich white men staying roles for 30 years and that's quickly going away too.
like, where do we come up with this?
Because what else?
What else have we seen?
If you've not seen a model for something different or something more audacious or something that, you know, oppose that point of view, that is what you're thinking.
And for a lot of us, we have this attachment, loyalty, all these things.
When someone gives us an opportunity, we feel either over attached or overburdened with it, even if we're delighted and it gets us reinvested.
People thrive off of our loyalty every single day, but you won't necessarily be in that role for 30 years.
It's a hard thing for people to wrap their head around.
I know it was for me.
Shoot, I know people who haven't been in a role got promoted to something and quit the very next day.
So some people don't even sit for 24 business hours.
And that wasn't necessarily at that point something that I had seen modeled.
And so, of course, getting more recognition or more visibility and more responsibility to me felt like a life of more burden.
And again, I was exhausted and agitated to the point of tears at that point.
I was legitimately crying because I just could see my life 30 years from now.
And again, my parents, my mom had worked in the same place for X amount of years.
I'd seen other leaders around me just be in their positions for X amount of years.
not considering the fact that that might have been strategic for them.
They might have had a lot of joy in that.
They could have moved to five different places.
I just didn't have that lens until later.
So things change soon thereafter.
Yeah, and I love that you were open to your mentor saying, get the money, get the title, and then you can make a new decision.
And I think some people, it's like a aha moment for them, like, oh, I can make a different choice.
The idea of leverage was not a thing, like positional leverage and power weren't a thing that I had really a grasp of fully.
I kind of understood it, but the idea that, well, being a vice president is a significant step, it is the title, but the access points, the trust, the things that people, the grace
that you get, the things that you can make up and design at that level, at least in the organization I was in, were extremely expansive.
I hadn't considered that.
I only considered my proximate point of view relative to the person right in front of me.
And to your point, Felicia, they weren't necessarily asking me at all to be that person.
In fact, my mobility was attached to the differentiating factor that I'd brought to the role, the team, the things I was already doing, which made me highly promotable and a
desirable, if you will, talent to invest in.
That was all there.
And it was very unique versus any of the people who were more senior to me at that point.
I just didn't see it.
Yeah, because unfortunately, we only know what we know.
In hindsight, so clear, but so delayed.
And it's not what we know, but we only know who we know.
We only know versions of ourselves that we are experiencing real time if we are intuitive and we are self aware or versions of ourselves that have existed in the past to examine.
I I was just discovering me in that moment.
So new knowledge, as well as understanding myself as a person, that's a lot to navigate.
And like anyone else who's in that discovery kind of period of understanding what they want to do, what they don't want to do, what they like and what they don't like, it's a
lot.
And it can take you to a lot of different places as you're discovering what then do I want to do, what rules, if you will, or what playbook is true for me and what's not.
And that's a journey in and of itself.
Yeah.
And it sounds like there was a big component for you.
And I wonder if you had words for it back then, but the safety, the need for that emotional safety.
And so you said that you felt in that moment of tension and aggravation and agitation that you felt unsafe.
I want you to share with us and I feel like you're uniquely qualified for this.
What does emotional safety have to do with your ability to like break these rules, break from convention and do something new and something different?
goodness, everything.
And when we think about that from a physiological or a neural standpoint, what's happening in our body when we don't feel safe is literally our body is disconnecting from our core
functions that allow us to think optimistically, to have an orientation towards trust, to invite in good wisdom.
Even our immune system is derailed when we are in that very threatened state.
So when we want to blossom into other opportunities or make different choices, if we haven't reckoned with the fact that one, that's happening, so we have language for it and
we can be mindful of it, and two, that there are other options when we haven't reckoned with that, it's really difficult to get to a space where we're operating maybe most
optimally.
That's why when I coach people, I talk about career seasons and I'm writing about this now and I will talk about book later.
While I'm writing about this, I'm sharing this framework in my book.
And I talk about all these career seasons that we all naturally go through and career and life seasons that we're naturally in or go through.
And one of those seasons is like a going season.
And so when I talk about going, people consider I'm just quitting my job and I'm out.
Like, no, going is the process of regulating yourself enough to know that it's time to leave and then making decisive action after that decision is made versus this thing was
cut off and then I'm out.
And even if it is, like a layoff and those types of things happen or people are let go, there's still a point in time where you can capture the facts and determine how you want
to approach that next step emotively.
Oftentimes we miss that space where we can have more agency and we'll just go in whatever direction the wind takes us or we'll just go towards the very next available opportunity,
not consciously.
Now, rejecting any kind of wisdom that would say, don't take the first thing.
I actually say if you choicefully know that my core needs might be attached to having money and I am decidedly going to take the very next thing and it will be for this time
period, taking the very next thing is smart and it's even strategic.
But there is a step around that self-regulation agency piece that we often miss when we are just activated and are in flux.
So that piece is what I notice happens with a lot of us, particularly
and this climate and this economy, right?
Or when we've been in a level of our career and then the bottom falls out of an opportunity.
There's ego attached to that.
There's even sometimes shame.
There's concern.
There's a lot of emotions there.
Those are all flight, fight, fear, freeze, eff it emotions that sometimes keep us stuck in a point of stasis where the best opportunity doesn't even, you can't even hear it because
you're in your head with the other things that you can't even always allow in things that feel
provocative or possibility driven.
And again, one of the reasons I coach, one of the reasons I do the work that I do or consult is getting in with individuals and being that interrupter to provide a different
perspective of, here's a route you could go down if you're experiencing friction so that they themselves can recognize their own voice.
And usually the strategy is somewhere in their head or in their lived experience.
It's just getting regulated enough to capture it is a practice that we can cultivate if we are aware of what's happening.
And I don't know, sometimes I do this podcast and I'm like, I feel like God is like, you don't listen.
So you do the podcast, you do listen.
So I'm have you have people on to talk to your black ass because clearly you need a word.
Okay, so this is Felicia's.
Okay, actually we did it here.
It's for everybody else.
You know what though?
I'm on my own street with that sometimes too.
So I'm not going to leave you alone in that.
It's a learned skill set, but you get to learn that lesson as many times as you need to.
Listen, what you just said in practical matters for people who may not have fully picked up what you put down, especially at a time when we have so many layoffs, there's so many
people.
I feel like half of my network is laid off right now, like real talk, especially the people who are like 10 years, 15 years into their career at a business school.
It's like a bloodbath out here.
And I mean, and been
without a job for a year and a half, two years.
um And it's so scary.
But what you just put down was, and I think this for me, let me talk about me.
I have been so afraid because my identity was tied up in the accoutrements of a title and the...
m
You know, I went to school, I got this good job, I was rising the ranks.
I'm a senior director.
I'm almost to the the VP level, like where I'm supposed to be.
Right.
I did everything I was supposed to do.
And then to have my entire world just, you know, the rug just taken from under me and then left with, OK, what do I do now?
And then trying to figure out how to feel safety.
in this moment.
And the only thing that I've done is like got in my Bible more, go to church more, like try to get closer to God, which also feels kind of sleazy.
It's like, God, looking at me like, you want, you want to talk to me now, huh?
You ain't no singer director no more, huh?
Now you need me, huh?
But I think a lot of people are going through that, but it, it's something to be consciously aware of, not to just take the next thing.
And when you were saying that, I was interviewing for a job and I knew I did not need to be working there.
I knew I did not need to be working with that man that was interviewing me and acting a fool.
And he mentioned in the interview, well, if somebody tells you to send the email, then you need to just send the email with the five things you did.
Like he said that in the interview and I was like, huh, yeah.
It was like in my mind, I was like, bitch just get the job.
Bye!
Just get the job!
It's going to pay you, you're going have your benefits, then you can figure it out later, just get the job.
It doesn't matter about this man.
It doesn't matter he would make your life miserable for the time you're there.
You just need to right size and correct and get your credit score back.
Get the job, right?
But it was out of fear.
It was not out of me going towards something.
It was literally like,
This is the only real interview I've gotten in the past few months.
So let me try my hardest to get something that I should have not wasted my time from the moment I had the first conversation with the man.
That's just real.
And by the grace of God, I did not get that job.
And then I was salty about it, but I knew in my spirit, was like, God is trying to protect you, Goofy.
Wake up!
That man was gonna make your life a living hell.
I had actually talked to the other person that was in the role that was leaving and while the role was open, because that person was in my network, somebody connected me to them.
And that person told me, I am leaving because of this person.
Isn't it crazy how we can be our biggest op?
And that obviously that hiring manager was and you have the intel on the op and you went in there anyway.
the other big op, I would say supposition can also be opposition.
So our own supposition, meaning that I was supposed to do this or I was supposed to do that.
The biggest op, right?
Biggest opposition is all of those things that we thought we were supposed to do and how we were supposed to do them.
with the type of people we were supposed to do them with or the types of things we are supposed to withstand because we've done it before.
Maybe there is a toxic leader in any of our past.
They were like, I've dealt with, you know, that person before.
So if push comes to shove, I can put myself in that environment.
All the while, if you really reflect, you know, on your time in your life and the quality of life you might have had, then that could have been the worst part of your life.
And then we get into these periods of
know, transition, let's call it that, going from one part of our life or one part of how we were getting revenue to another or one part of how we showed up in the world to
another, those times of transition can call us back into what were, air quote, comfortable places.
And just because we experience it doesn't make it a comfortable place.
So that is a fact that we get to ingest so that we are not our own ops.
And we don't keep repeating some of the same things that
maybe we knew ultimately didn't serve us.
And when you get a time where you're in the season that you're in right now, I would consider it like, obviously you're searching and you're looking and you're creating the
next opportunity.
But also the season of pause, you have changed pace.
You know, I call it a woe season, W-O-A-H, a woe season.
So you have changed your pace so that you can consider what's next too.
In that phase, which we often do not get,
It is one of the best times to try to work on clarifying what did and didn't work so that we don't again continue to be our own worst op.
You know, we could talk, this could be an entire Felicia coaching session right now.
ah
No, it's not about me.
I do this with you.
Well, the coach of music, okay, so tell me the story about what happens today.
So I won't go there on you on your podcast.
We can talk about that separately.
I got your back on that.
No, and I appreciate that.
I just know I'm not the only one that's unhappy in their job, but even the job I had that I got laid off from when my boss left and then I had a new manager, you know how that goes
and the leadership shifts and they didn't hire you and then there could be friction there and I didn't feel safe anymore in that role and I wasn't safe.
knew it.
And so, you know, we all deserve to be in places that are going to
support us and nurture us and water us.
And I know a lot of people want to say, well, you can't ask that from work.
Work is work.
But we spend so much time doing work that shouldn't we honor ourselves and do work that actually feeds us in some way energetically?
I'm going to go here with you because I play around with the word should so intentionally.
I think should, like the should is so subjective.
Like your should and my should and your values and my values.
There'll be places where they intertwine, but for everyone there's going to be a place where they diverge.
There's a school of thought that says, shouldn't work feed your purpose or your energetic needs or all of that.
I'm of the camp that says yes and.
If you're going to be in a marketplace to exchange your gifts for value, I also believe that that work should feed your family.
I also believe that work should feed your retirement plan.
I also believe that work should feed your fund for resilience should work not exist.
Does that mean that those two places cannot be the same thing?
Actually, no.
I've experienced work where all that lined up and it felt like, if I think about that place that I've been that felt that way for most of the time, no workplace is perfect.
I could levitate to consider, wow, how lucky was that opportunity?
But I've also been in places where it was inherently the exact opposite, meaning that my core needs were met and beyond for that season.
But I was showing up there with the intent towards a very specific value exchange where they were getting what they needed.
I got what I needed.
Now, if anything steps out of alignment, integrity or core value wise, we'd have a different conversation.
And that conversation could range from, I dissatisfied?
So am I experiencing dissatisfaction?
So that's the friction.
Or red flag, if I'm experiencing harm, that's an entirely other, like polar opposite.
All, you know, could be dislike or not feeling it.
But I think sometimes we play around with this idea of dissatisfaction on one pole and harm on the other.
Sometimes we can get it conflated.
Other times we're not in a place with a very clear mission in mind around what is your intent for working.
You know, I ask people when I coach, I'm like, you know, and I quote all the time, they ask me what I do and who I do it for.
I can actually quote, here is what I do and who I do it for.
So when I step into every arena or agree to some value exchange, I'm very clear on my intent.
Then I'm also very clear on then what do I require to do this in the whole hearted way that matches up to
what we agreed on.
And then I also consider like just what are my values that if disrupted, this doesn't work.
So it's just like level of awareness.
Even me, I own my own business.
So I get a great deal of choice to some degree over who I work with.
If we are not in alignment on those things, then we don't do business together.
It can be the same way when you're in the workplace.
However, a lot of us are upside down on that relationship balance when it comes to what is the entire purpose
of work, especially in this late stage capitalistic society where businesses are businesses with a very specific intent and then all the other things that they do, which I
believe companies should do, be ethical, care for their folks.
I think that we are in like just even with things like insurance and having a company pay for insurance is revolutionary and also a modern convention.
If you think about when it started, having those core needs attached to work is important.
Now that's being disrupted with the gig economy and different things where individuals are going into a public marketplace to pay for their own.
But those necessary social good things that we depend on work for, it's being disrupted in such a significant way that we feel like our actual, like this relationship contract is
being broken.
All the while, the contract was always what it was on the front end of it.
A company set up roots, founded itself, has revenue goals, maybe has impact goals and purpose goals.
At the end of the day, if it's not doing that, then they make other decisions.
And that's where a lot of people are finding that out and doesn't feel good.
so going on a tangent there, but it's just like this relationship with what is the purpose of work, I think is one that we all get to explore and determine how deeply we put eggs
into any basket or how we specifically, strategically provision ourselves when we decide to work at a place based on the bigger needs for ourselves and our families.
Listen, if y'all aren't taking notes, I don't understand.
So my takeaway, and again, I'm like, okay, you know when God is just talking to you through somebody, that's what's happening.
Because again, the intentionality is so important.
And I know that.
And I talk about that all the time too.
Like, you got to get intentional.
You've got to be strategic.
That's the core tenets.
If you're going to manage your career,
Those are the things you have to do.
The reason why I liked this book, The Seven Rules of Power, was because it was a way to be more strategic about gaining leverage in your career to help you have a career that has
more ease, that has less of these hiccups.
I truly believe that if I had been following these tenets,
in managing my career, I would not be laid off.
That would not have been a thing.
But also tying into what you said, if I'd been more intentional and in alignment, what I do and who do I do it for?
Bars, but in such a, it just hit.
Like the takeaway here is get clear.
get intentional about what you do and who you do it for.
And I really believe if you're listening to this and what Ronnie is saying is hitting you like it's hitting me.
I hope that you take that as a homework and get really clear on that.
That is so, so important.
And I'm so glad you brought that up, Ronnie.
We're gonna take a quick break, but when we come back, we're gonna dive into networking.
No!
Anything but that!
Because that is the thing everybody hates, but I want to understand from you not only your take on networking, but also what do you coach your clients about networking?
So we're going to talk about that when we get back from this quick break.
So come back.
Let me ask you something.
How many times have you watched less competent folks get promoted while you just stay stuck?
I've seen this so many times.
The whole reason why this show exists is I was like, what am I doing wrong?
I would always blame myself.
And if you're like me, you're probably sitting there doing that too.
And the thing is, it's not your work and it's not you.
It's actually your career strategy.
You don't have one.
That is the fundamental problem.
Your hard work alone doesn't get you promoted.
Strategy gets you promoted.
So I have the FastTrack system.
It's for high performing professionals like you who are ready to create their career strategy using the pie framework.
This is very tactical to the point.
Okay.
So you'll walk away with a
personal power plan that shows you exactly where you're strong, where you're invisible, and how to shift your career strategy without compromising who you are.
So now, if you click the link in the show notes, you can go to the page where you can get this FastTrack system.
You already have what it takes.
You just need a strategy that works for you.
And that's what this system does.
click the link in the show notes and grab it while it's on sale, cause honey, the price is going to go up.
Okay?
So again, go to the show notes, click the link and get your plan together girl, before they hand your next promotion to a Chad or a Bob.
Now let's get back to the show.
All right guys, we are back with Ronnie Dickerson Stewart.
Listen, let me tell you something.
If you don't know this woman, shame on you, okay?
Because not only is she a career strategist, a coach, a leadership expert, professional development guru, okay?
She just gave me life during the break.
She's here to help us.
and by the way, has her own podcast.
Which I love listening to.
Hey, hey, Founder of hey, coach Gus, if you need somebody in your company, I'm going go ahead and plug it now.
Sorry.
OK.
Yes.
If you need someone to come into your company and help your leaders be better for you, send them to Ronnie.
I'm telling you, this is somebody who goes into organizations and transforms them for the better.
And I mean, emphasis on better, better for your leaders, better for you.
If you are in leadership and you know your organization needs help, this is the person for you.
Trust me.
I have seen it.
She has client testimonials.
So Ronnie, thank you for being on the show.
Now what I want to talk about this segment is the networking, because everybody's like,
So Ronnie, we should take on networking.
my clients this networking and not working is just one little letter and a space different.
I'm going run that mic.
Networking and not working is just one little letter and a space difference.
oh using that as a starting point, I also invite them into the understanding that at a certain level, most of the opportunity that you will find will be as a result of a
conversation you'll have.
someone thinking of you, someone putting your name in the room, someone just experiencing you and you showing up for them and just doing a deal, if you will, that would be
something that propels you to a new opportunity.
And once people experience that and see that enough, that is a point of belief they adopt.
I was not, let's say, raised with that belief.
I thought you, you know, go on, you know, I'm not going to shout out to the sites.
I'm not going to name the sites unless they're sponsoring.
ah You go to the job sites and you plug in what you want, you search the location and the thing pops up.
Those things are effective for understanding what's happening in the marketplace, but in most scenarios and cases recruiters are getting thousands and thousands upon thousands of
resumes and all that.
I know you all talked about things like this on this show.
So this is not new information for folks who would listen.
The thing about it is people truly don't understand the off-market
not just job marketplace, but the off market opportunity marketplace that exists just through being well connected.
And well connected doesn't even mean you're connected with a person at the top of an organization.
It just means you have made time to get to know people who are peers, lateral, proximate to you, or that you're interested in, or that they've, you know, it created some curiosity
for you and you're authentic enough to say, just want to be connected.
You seem cool.
I like what you did there.
I like...
what I've seen or heard you do this.
I've been doing that for so long, but it became like an actual skill set maybe several years into my career when I noticed that in my industry, which was advertising, media
marketing, and tech, everyone kind of knows each other and there's a lot of mobility.
And so I was like, I just want to know more about the industry.
That was my networking kind of point of view and posture.
And early on, I share people this story, like the only job that I have had that I've actually like applied for, like applied for it and then got it was my first one.
And that was an internship, right?
The internship went to a full-time hire.
The full-time hire after I didn't love my full-time job after a year and some change, I was in the club dancing just like this, pop locking at the free before 10 o'clock thing
with my business schedule on.
and met my then next boss who was like, we're looking for such and such, come on by the place.
Which then got to that place and got a phone call because a vendor or a partner was like, you gotta talk to somebody.
Or then I talked to a recruiter then and then worlds collided.
And then after that, the very next opportunity that came after that was another partner or vendor that said, hey, this place is looking for someone.
Come and interview, come and have a conversation.
We hear great things.
Then after that, mobility in that place was through endorsements.
And even when I got into the C-suite, I won't even tell all my own business on there, but being someone's succession plan.
And then when that light goes off that it's time, just getting that note that it's like, hey, it's time, that was all through community and showing up.
And so I tell people that your network is going to be the most powerful thing that you can invest in.
Over time, it will pay dividends.
And in the lean times, when you've been a good network member, being able to show up with a level of authenticity and saying, it's not going okay, like having people to capture you
and capture that is so important.
Yes.
Oh man.
I just, again, once again, I, as just the practical nature of what you're saying, I will be tribute in my own.
I have two people I've spoken with recently and I asked them, because I consider them these master networkers.
And I said, have you ever
been laid off or let go and then had this long stint of unemployment.
And both of them were like, no.
Before this job could let me go, I already had the next job lined up because this person and this person, and I know this person and this person, I talk to these people and I make
these connections.
And then you're now this third person.
And so I bring this up to say, you know, we talk about the rules of power, having that network
where people can actually pull you in and creating those connections are so important.
I think what I've done is shied away from that and just gravitated to just people who think I'm cool, because that makes me comfortable to be liked.
And networking isn't about being liked.
Mm-mm.
Not at all.
Yeah, because you can gather fans.
I got fans before the podcast.
Like, I remember when the first job I got pushed out of my going away party had like 35 of my coworkers, 35 people.
And none of those people could say, hey, why are we letting this person go?
We really like them.
We're coming to their going away lunch.
And I mean, I got the boot out the company now.
Like, HR was like, goodbye.
So like, you can have fans, you can have people that like working with you, they love working with you, but they don't have any juice to say, no, we need to keep this person
because they add this value to our company.
No, I was working for this man who was offended that I had mentioned that there were no women going to a big annual event.
And from then it was all in the pocket for him.
He was like, oh, okay.
Right, then you don't need to be here if you said this.
Now mind you, I said this flippantly at the copy machine to a coworker.
And I guess they went and ran tailed it.
But they asked me like, are you going to this event?
And I was like, no, there's no women from our floor going to this event.
But I thought we were open about our sexism and racism here.
Sling that back now, do we see?
The exchange and the safety that was not there.
Okay, we won't go there.
I didn't I was young I was so young and so
We our lumps.
We earn our lumps.
Our lessons are built off those lumps, right?
We can relitigate them.
We earned them.
We earned them fair and square.
That's it.
had no idea.
It just came out, just casually.
he asked me how it was going.
I oh, no, you know, ain't no women going.
Like, come on now.
Dun dun dun!
Villain gorgeous, right?
Listen, um, and been a villain ever since child.
like, so.
it's fascinating when you, mean, toleration for truth, being able to tolerate truth in a system that relies on individuals to go along with, to get along or go to a certain beat
of a certain drummer leader.
Yeah, it's going to be, it's going to present something that maybe we won't like or we get targeted or we get exited.
Again, back to the idea of knowing what the air quote rules are.
so that then you can consciously break them is a practice in and of itself.
understanding how much currency you have so that break a rule there's no cost is an art and science too, or building it up enough so that you can do or say what you need to do
and hold fully onto yourself.
mean, all those things are strategic in terms of how they're applied, but they are skills that you develop and decide that you want to develop once you've had all these very
very clear experiences.
Because you could clearly say right now, like, I'm not going to do that again.
Or you could say, no, no, I'm going to always do that.
Because then I can suss out what places will react a certain way.
I mean, there's a lot of directions you can go in that.
Not saying what you chose to do, but I am saying that information first.
No, just, went from learning, don't say that, to then saying other things that I shouldn't say.
Waters, the test in larnera
I'd just be learning.
And so now I think the biggest takeaway from my career is pay attention.
Because sometimes when those slips out of my mouth happen, my brain is just in a lullaby and I'm not really there.
My ADHD is running rampant, having a good time.
Kind of not paying attention to my environment and how I'm showing up.
And I had to learn.
that it was very important how you show up.
And when you think about how you show up for networking, how you show up is the foundation of your narrative.
And if you are going to build a network that works for you so you can be working instead of not working, then you have to pay attention to how you show up and how you get work
done.
It's not just getting the work done, it's how you get it done.
And that's true.
I used to fight against that idea.
used to make me angry because I'm like, well, they're being discriminatory because they don't like me and they're throwing it into this how you get stuff done.
And if that's the case, then you probably don't need to be working there.
Like if that's really truly the case.
But sometimes you got to sit back and be like, okay, am I being an asshole?
Mm-hmm.
Or have I put points on the board?
I mean, let's let's dissect that in the context of network advocacy, stickiness, people showing up for you or going to bat for you, because you could qualify those people as a
part of your network.
But I also think those are like kind of like core people that are part of your career, mobility and strategy network.
Yes.
And but when you think about sometimes it's like it's not even about I know you talk about the pie model.
But likeability in certain organizations are attached to very specific things.
So likeability can be attached to, did you go out and have the craft beer for craft beer night?
Or likeability could be attached to, did you show up for service and have service hours?
Or likeability could be like, did you show up for our clients and hit the ball out of the park?
I don't care if you cussed everybody else out around you to get there, but did we get revenue?
I like ya, I like ya.
Right?
And so.
Again, when we talk about, you know, a-holes are people who are toxic in workplaces and they just keep them around, there is a good reason.
We like that person because, and they'll attach it, of course, that goes into the P, like with performance, but likeability and performance being very closely tied there.
But then on the other side, when it comes to values and culture and show-upship, the exposure side, but likeability goes in both directions.
I think being in an organization,
and understanding if you're kind of getting into those likeability kind of traps, it is tied to truly understanding what is putting points on the board for that company so that
you're ingested as a valuable member.
And for me, that doesn't have to mean assimilation.
Very early in your career, people are like, OK, do all of the widgets and gadgets line up in a row so that I know I can train them up.
And then you get to differentiating yourself after that.
where you can start to test into some of those waters around uh deeper forms of authenticity, which I feel like you should have it from Jump, but that's a different
conversation.
But the deeper forms of authenticity show up.
I was reading a book.
If I can think of the book, I'll let you know.
And they were using kind of an analogy or talking about the person that comes into the office, this suit and tie office, but this person comes in the office every day wearing a
Hawaiian shirt and sandals.
And why can this person do it?
They've been there for so many years, Hawaiian shirt and sandals, they come through.
but let this newbie come in in Hawaiian shirts and sandals, they're gonna be exited.
Well, that person has currency in the system and there's something that they're doing that they're contributing enough to be liked until they have more range.
And sometimes we come in like we have range and we come in real hot and then we learn real quick what the result of that is.
So just leaving it there, we kind of went diverged around network, but this is important to know too.
Yeah, it all works together because once you start to accumulate that currency, part of that currency also then helps you build your network internally.
And again, I just want people to know, knowing lots of people does not equal having a strategic network.
There's a value exchange and alignment that have to be there that are critical.
Yeah, you can be notorious, you can be known, you can be a fact, like, being notorious, you can be notable, known, notorious.
There's a ranges of like awareness from people who are just around.
And I guess qualifying what that looks like or what that is for you, especially when you need people to stand up for you is really important.
You knowing 50 people and you're just notoriously insert what X, Y, and Z is not going to help you.
And then apply like what value are you bringing based on the terms that are important to them is also the other layer of that.
It's a cake.
It's a very, very interestingly layered cake.
Mm-hmm.
Ronnie, was, listen, again, bar.
So we're getting close to the time because, listen, you booked in busy.
So I appreciate you today.
I want you, though, to tell us about the book.
What are you working on?
What are you writing?
When is it coming out?
Give us as much as you can give us.
I'm so excited about this.
For now, we are calling it The Book, and I'm not being clugee for weird reasons.
It's just that releasing the book over time has its own milestones, and I cannot wait to share the title, because the title will give you context around what I'm writing about,
but I'll share that.
I'm writing about everything, a lot of the things that we talked about today, notably around what conventions we want to embrace, what conventions we want to defy in the
interest of creating and curating an aligned career and aligned life.
Also, considering the fact that so many of us have learned a lot, we've earned a lot of wisdom and have gotten to a point where we are considering how to actually live in a way
that feels more aligned versus living in a way that's been passed down to us through family or through our culture in an interest of keeping us safe, in an interest of keeping
us out of a place where we could be harmed in a lot of cases.
And so I'm provoking that and poking that bear.
talking about a lot of the things or helping people impact the things that serve them from that era, as well as giving them lot of space to design what happens next.
So I'm writing a book as if I'm sitting next to you, readers and listeners, like having a coach next to you, not a person that's just going to prescribe to you 10 steps to do
something, but a person who is going to provoke you.
into action and design on your own terms.
It is honestly, Felicia, it is a delightful, like the book itself, the concept is like, I'm so excited.
The title, I'm obsessed with it.
I can't wait to share.
But the process of sitting next to my reader every single step of the way to write and create a body of work that's intended to serve them and serve people who are grossly
underserved.
There's a lot of, let's say career life advice for early younger
fresh out whippersnappers.
There's also, I noticed a lot of motivational things for people who've done some things.
They're like, live, laugh, love.
Let's not go, I could go down a tangent, but things like that that feel emblematic or like anthems, if you will, to coalesce around that I think are powerful.
But when I am coaching people, they want tools so that they can do something very specific.
so that whatever it was, it's okay to wanna feel safe.
It's okay to want to be okay, but they wanna do that on different terms because the terms that they've been doing on it do not serve them or have not set them up for success.
Even including the people who are left under resource because the job market switched it up or because the culture and economy switched it up, right?
Or the people who are like, oh, everybody's quiet quitting, I'll do that too.
And then they, boop, hit a brick wall with that.
I'm like, baby, you have money.
Why are doing that?
Did that serve you?
But now look at, now we're rebuilding.
So there's a duality of the idea that there are modern things that people get to adopt if they're exposed to them.
There's also the piece around, there are some things that people are serving you that might not be what you want to eat.
It doesn't apply to you.
So how do you figure out what applies to you and make whatever happens next beautiful?
And so the book impacts a ton of that, even down to tropes of quit your job, be an entrepreneur.
I laugh heartily at that.
I'm like, friend.
I tell people, you might want to rethink that because, I ran out of money trying to be an entrepreneur.
But it's like, how do you go about that functionally?
Or how do you know if that's what serves you, like what needs to be in place?
Or if you know that naturally this is a thing on someone's roadmap, what would you maybe consider differently earlier in your career if you had to reverse engineer?
So that then helps you understand what tools you could pull forward to apply to the future.
There's a lot of ways to look at this and one, not should on ourself.
Thank you.
Not not, you know, supposition becoming opposition.
So people have more agency, feel more aligned, feel regulated in whatever the path is that they decide to take on moving forward.
So anyway, it's big.
I'm like reading points and chapters of the book as I'm.
it's going to be so exciting.
I'm really excited about it.
Oh, OK.
Well, for those, anyone who's listening, who's written a book, it is a process.
I'm finishing the book right now, actually writing real time.
If you're listening to this at any point.
in early 2025.
If you found me outside of this podcast, the other, well, like as soon as we finished this recording, I'm literally going into a writing session and the book won't come out until
2026.
So late summer, early fall 26 is the one the book is in is in the world.
So.
Exclusive.
So it's coming guys.
I need it now.
I can't wait.
Felicia, you, I will make sure you have an early reader copy of it.
you're gonna come on the show and we're gonna talk about this book.
Live with the people.
We want to get people in to do something.
We'll think about it.
We'll dream it up.
I will be touring the book and I'll be doing things before the book is even released to invite community into the concepts in the book.
So for your listeners and folks at UNI, yes, you all will see.
ah I keep almost saying the title.
You're going to see this book in real life and not just on a shelf.
I love this.
I cannot wait.
This is so exciting.
But in the meantime, since the book isn't coming out until 2026, what tools and offers do you have for the people right now that need help today?
So I always invite people to get into community with me and I have a newsletter that comes out weekly I've been doing it for now two and a half years I guess it's the delight of my
life to provide access that a good start to the week to the community that I've created and Join that list is the first step you go to OH Hey, join calm so oh hey join calm it
will add you to that list
Everything, offerings, in person, all that starts with that list.
So a couple of the things that are coming up are I've created this self-driven on-demand body of work in course that adapts one of the practices that I use to literally launch and
completely align and rock my week derived from
something that my now late EA and I did and created years ago in terms of how we work together.
It's called a mission control Monday practice is what I call it.
But it's going to be a mission control training to show people how to do that for themselves, EA or not, to create a more aligned week, both career and life.
It's something that has literally rocked my world for years.
And usually when I'm meeting with individuals and having conversations and coaching,
They're looking for capacity.
First thing, like I can't even think about all these brilliant things that you are coaching me against when I don't have capacity.
And I'm like, okay, as an executive, as a leader, what is executive level capacity creation skills look like?
It starts with the top of your week.
So I'll show people how to have a mission controlled day.
Mine is Monday.
People's can be Sunday or whatever.
And then set up their week, their month, et cetera, using those tenants, whether they have an assistant in EA or not.
The second thing that is coming out later this year, what people have been hounding me, literally hounding me to create is a master class on pivoting.
Whether you're pivoting a position, you're pivoting a place, pivoting how you make profit, uh all these things.
We are going through multiple pivots and not just the idea behind them, but strategically, how do you architect a pivot from any of those realms?
And how do you do it in the way that takes care of your core needs and doesn't sacrifice the things that are most important to you?
That's something I teach quietly and privately with my clients, but I'm creating it in a broader way so more people have access to that.
So that'll be coming here in Q3.
Yay, I'm excited for that.
Now, how can organizations partner with you?
Because I know you do most of your work with companies and agencies and media and entertainment and tech.
how could my company, if I'm listening and I know my company needs some help, how do you partner with them and when should organizations reach out to you?
Right now, let's start there.
So there's never not a time where a team, a leadership team, an organization, a set of managers, there's never a time they don't need some type of upskilling or possibility
creation around what it looks like to have more aligned work or to have better work outcomes.
That is what OHE coach is built for and what my organization specializes in.
95 % of the work that I do is in corporate entities or with corporate entities and in organizations.
doing learning experience, workshop facilitation, speaking, keynotes, and all that good stuff.
So just to clarify, the starting point is now in terms of time, but how they can get in touch with me is just go to ohaycoach.com.
I know you'll put the link in the show notes.
just contact us.
We'll immediately connect with you and set up time to get a brief on what you're looking for or simply share our learning experience catalog so that you can wrap your head around.
all the offerings that we have for Hey Coach.
We just did this brilliant open house that went deep on Hey Coach, our offerings and all the things that we do.
And so for those who fill out our contact form and want to learn more, then they can get a copy of that body of work as well.
Awesome sauce.
Well, Ronnie, thank you so, so much for this time.
You are a joy.
You are God sent.
You're doing the Lord's work.
Even if it don't feel like it sometimes, when you're having the rough days, I want you to hear my voice and say, keep going.
Because you are transforming lives out here, connecting dots for people they didn't even know they needed.
And just dropping truth bombs in a tone and intention that is resonant and deep in spirit that moves people to change, literally change their lives.
So if you don't see that, because sometimes I think we just are so busy doing the work, we don't see that in ourselves.
I hope that you will hear me remind you of that when a day gets hard or interesting.
in a way that you like, ain't asked for this interesting.
um Because you know, every day is an adventure.
Well, those are some big affirmations and confirmations for Elmo, but I will say that I fully receive it.
I think one of the benefits of wisdom and aging, and for me in my 40s, has been the ability to know and stay in your own lane intentionally and consciously.
And I am not only in my own lane right now.
I feel like I'm deeply in my bag.
when it comes to how to show up for people.
And my intention is to keep doing it, even on the days where it's hard.
So I received that fully Felicia, and I really appreciate you for saying those things.
No, thank you.
I hope this episode is a blessing to anyone who listened to it and it meets them when they need it the most.
And I know it will.
So thank you.
And guys, that's a wrap on today's show.
Well guys, that's a wrap on another great episode of the Career Management Podcast for Black Women.
Yes, girl, this show is just for you.
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